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10-26-2009, 01:08 AM

As a fellow right divider, and believing our current salvation is" by grace through faith of Christ", and not of works, lest any man should boast, I have a concern..albeit, a question.
If a blood bought Christian can be saved without works, can they be damned for fleshly works ?
Gal.5:18-21 "But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law."
19 " Now the works of the flesh are manifest...adultery, fornication, uncleanness , ...20 ...hatred, variance..21..drunkenness..of which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."
This is not a personal confession or testimony, and I believe from the word and experience that God through His Spirit works through our spirit to convict and deliver us through conviction from dead works that are harmfull to ourselves and our testimony to others.
And He has done so and continues to purge such things, in my life and others. Some have all been guilty of one or more things on the list, some of us even after being saved.
Gal.6:5 " For every man shall bear his own burden."
If I understand Paul correctly, grace can only go so far with a truly saved Christian, and we have to bear the consequences of our sin(willful sin).
Do any of you believe a christian can be damned for unrepented continuous sin ?

***Here Am I*** · 10-26-2009, 07:02 AM

(10-26-2009 01:08 AM)shieldoffaith Wrote: As a fellow right divider, and believing our current salvation is" by grace through faith of Christ", and not of works, lest any man should boast, I have a concern..albeit, a question.
If a blood bought Christian can be saved without works, can they be damned for fleshly works ?

No. We were bought with a price, we are not our own, we belong to the Lord.

He saved us, we cannot unsave ourselves by our deeds. However, we will reap that which we have sown. We are chastised as sons of God.

I'm at work, and it's hard to search for the Scriptures I want without my trusty software, but I think you can check the references. If not, I'll look them up when I get home, or someone else might give them to you. ;)

Quote:Gal.5:18-21 "But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law."
19 " Now the works of the flesh are manifest...adultery, fornication, uncleanness , ...20 ...hatred, variance..21..drunkenness..of which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."

The Kingdom of God is spiritual (there is a verse), not physical, it isn't Heaven. It is what we join when we get saved.

We are not under the law, but under grace. We are led of the Spirit once we are saved, although we might balk and try to do it 'our own way'. That's when we can expect chastisement, or worse.

But our salvation is secure, because we're not the ones to keep it, but the Lord. It is His salvation ("the joy of thy salvation"), not ours.

Quote:This is not a personal confession or testimony, and I believe from the word and experience that God through His Spirit works through our spirit to convict and deliver us through conviction from dead works that are harmfull to ourselves and our testimony to others.
And He has done so and continues to purge such things, in my life and others. Some have all been guilty of one or more things on the list, some of us even after being saved.
Gal.6:5 " For every man shall bear his own burden."
If I understand Paul correctly, grace can only go so far with a truly saved Christian, and we have to bear the consequences of our sin(willful sin).
Do any of you believe a christian can be damned for unrepented continuous sin ?

No, but we will bear the consequences, whether it be chastisement, death or shame at the Judgment Seat of Christ, when we will have nothing to offer Him.

10-26-2009, 07:26 AM

(10-26-2009 01:08 AM)shieldoffaith Wrote: As a fellow right divider, and believing our current salvation is" by grace through faith of Christ", and not of works, lest any man should boast, I have a concern..albeit, a question.
If a blood bought Christian can be saved without works, can they be damned for fleshly works ?
Gal.5:18-21 "But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law."
19 " Now the works of the flesh are manifest...adultery, fornication, uncleanness , ...20 ...hatred, variance..21..drunkenness..of which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."
This is not a personal confession or testimony, and I believe from the word and experience that God through His Spirit works through our spirit to convict and deliver us through conviction from dead works that are harmfull to ourselves and our testimony to others.
And He has done so and continues to purge such things, in my life and others. Some have all been guilty of one or more things on the list, some of us even after being saved.
Gal.6:5 " For every man shall bear his own burden."
If I understand Paul correctly, grace can only go so far with a truly saved Christian, and we have to bear the consequences of our sin(willful sin).
Do any of you believe a christian can be damned for unrepented continuous sin ?

I do not believe that a Christian can be damned (lose his salvation) for unrepented, continuous sin.

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand." John 10:27-29

No man, not even me and my sins, can pluck me out of His hand or the Father's hand.

I do believe, however, that at the Judgement Seat of Christ, my actions will be judged and I will feel shame for those things I did willfully and that get burned up because I will not have those 'jewels or crowns' to offer to Jesus.

***William*** · 10-27-2009, 10:41 AM

(10-26-2009 01:08 AM)shieldoffaith Wrote: As a fellow right divider, and believing our current salvation is" by grace through faith of Christ", and not of works, lest any man should boast, I have a concern..albeit, a question.
If a blood bought Christian can be saved without works, can they be damned for fleshly works ?

Absolutely not.

Quote:Gal.5:18-21 "But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law."
19 " Now the works of the flesh are manifest...adultery, fornication, uncleanness , ...20 ...hatred, variance..21..drunkenness..of which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."

You referred to rightly dividing, so let's look at that passage carefully. Notice the pronouns: if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law .... of which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

He's talking about two groups of people: the Galatian Christians to whom he's writing (ye, you), and those who will not inherit the kingdom of God (they). He is not saying that doing the works of the flesh will cause a person to fall from the first group into the second. That would do violence to the rest of scripture: for example, Romans 7, where he talks about the struggle in his own life, and his powerlessness over the flesh.

Quote:This is not a personal confession or testimony, and I believe from the word and experience that God through His Spirit works through our spirit to convict and deliver us through conviction from dead works that are harmfull to ourselves and our testimony to others.
And He has done so and continues to purge such things, in my life and others. Some have all been guilty of one or more things on the list, some of us even after being saved.

Very true. We all perform the works of the flesh, but as we seek to mature in Christ, these things lessen; they lose the power they once had over us. But we're never entirely free from them. Your use of the word "pruning" reminds us of the vine and the branches in John 15. We are the branches, and God "purges" or prunes us in various ways: by the word of God, by growing in grace, and by discipline, if necessary. But, since God Himself chose this analogy, let's take it a step farther: whether you're growing marigolds or apple trees, you don't "prune" the thing once, and have done with it; the pruning process must be repeated regularly. We may get victory over this sin or that sin, but He'll have to prune other sins; or, pruning a besetting sin from our lives may take years, and much chastening. But the Lord is still working on us; He hasn't taken away our salvation. We're still attached to the true Vine.

Quote:Gal.6:5 " For every man shall bear his own burden."
If I understand Paul correctly, grace can only go so far with a truly saved Christian, and we have to bear the consequences of our sin(willful sin).

With all due respect, you're not understanding Paul correctly. The verse you quoted has nothing to do with bearing one's own sins, or the consequences of those sins; it has to do with Christians bearing the burdens, problems, and sorrows of other Christians. The passage begins, Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ (Gal. 6:2). If the context was referring to salvation and damnation, it would mean that you might have to bear my sins, or I yours! But of course that's nonsense; there was only one Sin-Bearer.

Some have seen a contradiction between 6:2 and 6:5. (To be honest, it puzzled me for a number of years!) But if you think about it, it's not a contradiction at all. And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it. Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular (1 Cor. 12:26, 27). If we're brothers in Christ, your burdens are my burdens, and mine are yours. We bear them for each other, and, if filled with the Spirit, we do it so naturally and willingly that we see no distinction between our own problem and our brother's problem. But the passage has nothing to do with bearing the burden of sin; Jesus did that. Jesus paid it all!

Quote:Do any of you believe a christian can be damned for unrepented continuous sin ?

Continuous and unrepented sin? No, not even for that. He or she can be killed, like Ananias and Sapphira and some of the Corinthian Christians; but that's just their physical lives. They're still saved, although, has been pointed out, they'll lose rewards at the Judgment Seat of Christ.

10-28-2009, 06:16 AM

Thank you for clarifying all that, Bro.Will...I must have missed that staff meeting...The subtle differences between the "we" and "they" adressed can be hard to catch..that's got to be a major power verse(s) for those trying to lump the entire N.T. into one...sorry about brutalizing it. If I can be such a dolt as to miss that being a fellow dispensationalist, what could you possibly be thinking?( probably, "what a moron !)

10-28-2009, 08:57 AM

(10-28-2009 06:16 AM)shieldoffaith Wrote: Thank you for clarifying all that, Bro.Will...I must have missed that staff meeting...The subtle differences between the "we" and "they" adressed can be hard to catch..that's got to be a major power verse(s) for those trying to lump the entire N.T. into one...sorry about brutalizing it. If I can be such a dolt as to miss that being a fellow dispensationalist, what could you possibly be thinking?( probably, "what a moron !)

Brother, you are most certainly not a moron! We are all learning and we are all at different stages of learning. That is what this forum is for - we can put things out there and not be afraid of being ridiculed or put down by those who have more 'experience/knowledge' in these things. This is how we all grow.

***William*** · 10-28-2009, 03:28 PM

(10-28-2009 06:16 AM)shieldoffaith Wrote: If I can be such a dolt as to miss that being a fellow dispensationalist, what could you possibly be thinking?( probably, "what a moron !)

Actually, I was thinking no such thing: I was enjoying your avatar. Is that the same child who used to be in your avatar, in striped pajamas? I must confess, brother, that picture always worried me: he looked like a little convict. But he's a very cute kid. Reminds me of one of my grandsons.

Brother, if I told you some of the boneheaded mistakes I've made in the scripture, you'd know I was a moron!

10-29-2009, 06:47 AM

(10-28-2009 03:28 PM)William Wrote:
(10-28-2009 06:16 AM)shieldoffaith Wrote: If I can be such a dolt as to miss that being a fellow dispensationalist, what could you possibly be thinking?( probably, "what a moron !)

Actually, I was thinking no such thing: I was enjoying your avatar. Is that the same child who used to be in your avatar, in striped pajamas? I must confess, brother, that picture always worried me: he looked like a little convict. But he's a very cute kid. Reminds me of one of my grandsons.

Brother, if I told you some of the boneheaded mistakes I've made in the scripture, you'd know I was a moron!

Why didn't I check the context before starting this thread ? No William, there's mistakes and then there's "whoah..what a _ _ _ _ _ !" Good thing you set me straight. Thanks, People.