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"Pastor" Doug Batchelor
04-25-2010, 10:26 PM
Post: #1
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"Pastor" Doug Batchelor
what happens when we die?

i watched this show tonight. the hosts final concclusion was we lay in the ground sleeping till the rapture.

this is complete opposite to what i have always been taught aand believe. he quoted verses to support his case.

luke 16 the rich man and lazuras they were both aware after death. the richman could even see lazuras. thats some pretty good prof we dont just lay in the grave sleeping waiting for the rapture. and what about the versee that says to be absent from the Bible is to be present with the lord.

i dont think he was right. i`ll post his verses ttomorrow when i,m on a real computer.
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04-26-2010, 03:32 AM
Post: #2
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RE: when we die
'chriskjv', you are right on.

In the first place I don't allow myself to be taught by the world (Discovery channel, History channel, or whatever) when it concerns the Bible or Christian/ "Religious" themes.

Jesus Christ and the Bible only refer to Christians who sleep (not soul sleep) in the Lord. They sleep because they don't truly die, for when a saved person passes they enter Life. The lost don't sleep, per se, when they die, for they are judged already and condemned to an eternally of suffering.

Verses about Christians sleeping:
For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
I Cor. 11:30

Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed...
I Cor. 15:51

For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
I Thess. 5:9-10

But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
For the Lord himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
I Thess 4:13-18

In this case, we can't say that this girl was a Christian, but an "old covenant saint".
And he cometh to the house of the ruler of the synagogue, and seeth the tumult, and them that wept and wailed greatly.
And when he was come in, he saith unto them, Why make ye this ado, and weep? the damsel is not dead, but sleepeth.
Mark 5:38-39

The saints who died under the old covenant were held in sheol (Hell) in a place called "Abraham Bosom" in comfort and peace. They had not ascended to Heaven, they where held in a holding jail until Christ should suffer.

[Sorry, staff, for the long activity log of edits.]
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04-26-2010, 06:41 AM
Post: #3
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RE: when we die
Ronnie's reply was good, but I'm going to point out something, Chris, that might help you:

"But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.
For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:
Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you." (Philippians 1:22-24)


To depart is to be with Christ. There is no sleep mentioned.

In verse 24 Paul talks about abiding in the flesh, as opposed to being with Christ.

Well, if we are in the grave, asleep with our body, then we are abiding with our flesh in the grave, and not with Christ, which contradicts verse 23.

Another passage which comes to mind is from Revelation:


"And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled." (Revelation 6:9-11)


The souls are under the altar, and they are crying out to the Lord. This passage is specific that it is not just 'them that were slain', but 'the souls of them that were slain'.

We know from Luke 16 that a soul does have a bodily shape, and so can wear a robe. The addition of 'the souls of them' is significant.

Lastly, what did Jesus say to the dying thief on the cross?


"And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise." (Luke 23:43)

Did the thief 'sleep'? No, he was going to BE WITH CHRIST in paradise that day!

Hope that helps some.

Knit
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04-26-2010, 07:21 AM
Post: #4
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RE: when we die
(04-25-2010 10:26 PM)chriskjv Wrote:  what happens when we die?

i watched this show tonight. the hosts final concclusion was we lay in the ground sleeping till the rapture.

this is complete opposite to what i have always been taught aand believe. he quoted verses to support his case.

luke 16 the rich man and lazuras they were both aware after death. the richman could even see lazuras. thats some pretty good prof we dont just lay in the grave sleeping waiting for the rapture. and what about the versee that says to be absent from the Bible is to be present with the lord.

i dont think he was right. i`ll post his verses ttomorrow when i,m on a real computer.

Both of Ronnie's and Lor's posts were excellent. I would like to know the name of this preacher.

Soul sleep is a dangerous and common belief. An excellent message on the body soul and spirit, is one of Dr. Ruckman's Drawing Men to Christ series entitled, "Body, Soul and Spirit". Only $5.00 from the bookstore.

It opened my knowledge to a number of truths.

Gary
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04-26-2010, 12:05 PM
Post: #5
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RE: when we die
Gary it was a show called Amazing Facts. I'll look it up to see who the preacher was. My wife watched it yesterday. She was not feeling well and stayed home from church. I watched it last night.
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04-26-2010, 12:15 PM
Post: #6
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RE: when we die
Gary the preachers name is Pastor Doug Batchelor.


I think the Bible proves him wrong.
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04-26-2010, 12:55 PM
Post: #7
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RE: when we die
(04-26-2010 12:15 PM)chriskjv Wrote:  Gary the preachers name is Pastor Doug Batchelor.

I think the Bible proves him wrong.

You bet it does! Brother, with all due respect, I have removed the link to Batchelor's website from your post. I examined the site for a long time, reading his reflections on a number of subjects, and he is, quite simply, a false prophet, teaching false doctrine. If anyone wants to read his stuff, they can find it easily enough; but we're not gonna make it easier.

This man teaches "soul sleep." He may not use those words, because he's smart enough to know that the Watchtower Witnesses (among others) use it; but that's what he teaches: that we are unconscious and "asleep" between the time of our physical death and the Rapture, when our souls and bodies are raised together. That's what he teaches, and it's just as unscriptural as it can be.

He also teaches that the believer can "give up" his or her salvation simply by choosing not to be saved any more; and he teaches that, although Jesus was sinless, He was incarnated in a body of sinful flesh. That is sheer blasphemy. Jesus was made in human flesh, like we are; He was fully human, as well as fully divine; but to say that He inhabited sinful flesh is the same as saying that He had sin in His bloodstream: in fact, to say the former is to say the latter. He also teaches that Christians are bound by the Mosaic Law.

He undoubtedly has other goofy ideas as well, but I only spent about an hour on his website.

It is true, as Ronnie points out, that death is referred to as "sleep" throughout the New Testament. But that is a figure of speech. (As C.S. Lewis said, some things aren't meant to be taken literally: when Jesus called Himself the Door, He didn't mean that he had hinges and a knob.) The simple truth of scripture is that one enters into the so-called "afterlife" (Heaven or Hell) immediately at death; and that, for the Christian, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

One reason that Batchelor's teaching is so deadly is that it obscures one of the great truths of the New Testament: i.e., the circumcision of the soul from the body. This is the "circumcision made without hands" of Col. 2:11-15, in which, at the moment of our salvation, our soul is cut free from our body. This is a subtle, but glorious and liberating truth: because it means that the sins of my flesh do not touch my soul any more. Before I was saved, if I defiled my body, my soul was also defiled; but not any more. My body will still suffer, but my soul is untouched.

But Batchelor teaches that the soul and the body are stuck together permanently: so that when we bury the body, the soul is buried with it, and can't go to Heaven until Jesus returns, and changes our bodies at the Rapture.

He's all wet. He's full of prunes. He doesn't know the Bible, and he shouldn't be teaching it. With his heavy, central emphasis on prophecy, I'd guess that he's some mutation of Seventh Day Adventist. He is not to be trusted.

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04-26-2010, 02:36 PM
Post: #8
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RE: when we die
I agree william.. You can even move this thread to the false teacher section if you wish. the first time I watched this show he was telling us you need to be baptized to be saved. That was months ago and I never watched it again till yesterday.
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04-26-2010, 02:38 PM
Post: #9
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RE: when we die
(04-26-2010 02:36 PM)chriskjv Wrote:  I agree william.. You can even move this thread to the false teacher section if you wish. the first time I watched this show he was telling us you need to be baptized to be saved. That was months ago and I never watched it again till yesterday.

I'll do just that, brother, and re-name the thread. Thanks for calling our attention to this person.

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04-27-2010, 12:00 PM
Post: #10
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RE: "Pastor" Doug Batchelor
I re watched the show last night. He used 1 Corinthians 15:51-58 to try to make his point. He really centered on verse 51 "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shal not all sleep, but we shall all be changed," .. His only problem is sleep in this verse means die it doesn't mean to sleep. He also used allot of old testament verses. Several from Job, Genesis and Isaiah. I should write them down instead of trying to go from memory.
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