James and Paul

[Luke]

Why the contention between the two?

It's not just James 2:24 vs Romans 4:5 and Galatians 2

Galatians 2:12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.

The men that came up and caused the strife between Peter and Paul came from James

And when Paul goes to Jerusalem, James and Paul have a chat

Acts 21:20-22 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs. What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.

James is in Jerusalem, and the Jewish believers there are zealous of the LAW. And here is Paul, telling the Jews outside Jerusalem to forsake the Law. James ask - WHAT IS IT?

And then James tells Paul to keep the law!

Paul goes to the temple to purify himself, but then the Jewish believers take him and tell him off for not keeping the law of moses and teaching others the same and it takes the Roman Gentiles to get Paul out of there (James doesn't show up anymore).

This is not the apostle James, because he was beheaded earlier in Acts. This is James the Lord's brother (Galatians 1:19). Is this the same James that wrote the Epistle of James?

What is going on?

[Ronnie]

(10-10-2009 09:51 PM)Luke Wrote:  Why the contention between the two? What is going on?

Just my humble opinion, which mean nothing at all, but the fact that the Jews came from James is of little consequence I believe, what is important is that they were Torah Keeping Jews that would be very judgmental, Christian or no, that Peter would be eating with gentiles.

[Luke]

But the question remains, why did James put such a distinction between Jew and Gentile, and in his own congregation, he boasted to Paul that they were all zealous of the law, and told Paul to keep it.

[Ronnie]

(10-11-2009 04:26 PM)Luke Wrote:  But the question remains, why did James put such a distinction between Jew and Gentile, and in his own congregation, he boasted to Paul that they were all zealous of the law, and told Paul to keep it.

I don't remember that, I may be wrong, but the Jerusalem church told Paul to remember the poor and keep from eating things strangled, period. No time to give you verse right now, Luke.

[Luke]

That's in Acts 15, and James reminds Paul here of that ( Chapter 21 vs 23 or 24 I think). But then he goes on to say - we said this of the gentiles, but why are you telling the Jews not to keep the law.

Was the Gospel of the Kingdom still in effect at this point?

The reason I ask is while I understand there is a transition between Israel and the Church, it seems that James is pretty much all about keeping the law for the Jews, and this is in Acts 21, 6 chapters (and several years) after Acts 15. In Acts 15, you will notice that James agrees with not placing the Gentiles under any law, except to observe some things which Paul said he was gonna say anyway, but why then does he encourage the Jews to be zealous of the law.

[Ronnie]

My Internet connection is down at the house.

[MrsHayseed]

(10-11-2009 04:50 PM)Luke Wrote:  That's in Acts 15, and James reminds Paul here of that ( Chapter 21 vs 23 or 24 I think). But then he goes on to say - we said this of the gentiles, but why are you telling the Jews not to keep the law.

Was the Gospel of the Kingdom still in effect at this point?

The reason I ask is while I understand there is a transition between Israel and the Church, it seems that James is pretty much all about keeping the law for the Jews, and this is in Acts 21, 6 chapters (and several years) after Acts 15. In Acts 15, you will notice that James agrees with not placing the Gentiles under any law, except to observe some things which Paul said he was gonna say anyway, but why then does he encourage the Jews to be zealous of the law.

I wonder if James was still keeping DISTINCT doctrine for the Jews,yes they get saved the same way as a gentile,but this doctrine would fully estasblish itself in the future.
In the Tribulation a physical temple and physical worship will be re-established.Matt 24:15,2Thess.2:4

Jews and Gentiles today have no national identity in Christ Eph.2:15
but in the Tribulation they remain Jews and Gentiles Isa.11:10,Acts15:16-17,Ez36:36,Matt.25:32 with Ezek.20:33-38.

The Jews are building up a Kingdom Dan9:27,Matt24:14

The Tribulation saints will have an Earthly hope Is.11

(just a thought.)

[Luke]

One thing to note, and I never go to the greek, but in scripture - sometimes the greek word Ekklesia is translated as Church and other times as Assembly

Most of the times it is translated as Assembly is under the Kingdom Gospel - Matthew, Mark, Luke, John & Acts

During Paul's letters, it is always translated as Church

And then we hit James and Hebrews and it goes back to Assembly. (these are not rules, sometimes it does do it the other way).

Now bear with me - when James mentions the assembly in James 2:2, it is a different word - it is the greek word for synagogue.

I don't know if there is anything in that. I hate looking at the greek, because it can often take your eyes off the simple english.

[MrsHayseed]

Ok..so it is Synagogue in James 2:2, that would suggest to me that his doctrine is Jewish to the twelve tribes and they have re-built the temple and are sabbath keeping...no?

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(10-14-2009 10:30 PM)MrsHayseed Wrote:  Ok..so it is Synagogue in James 2:2, that would suggest to me that his doctrine is Jewish to the twelve tribes and they have re-built the temple and are sabbath keeping...no?

[MrsHayseed]

well I mucked that up.

What I mean is James maybe giving a doctrine to future Jews in the tribulation.New Jewish converts at the time of Paul's writing may have been mixing it with the gospel of grace.

The Synagogue,Temple the antichrist will sit in and declare himself to be God from that future Synagogue.When he does the Jews are to flee,pregnant women and nursing women will find this difficult trying to flee far enough.They are to pray it is not in the winter or on a Sabbath day when they flee Matt24:19-20 so they are sabbath keeping again.