Desire the sincere milk of the word (formerly MUDDLED THINKING?)

[art]

As we are born in the flesh as new born babes, we have need of milk to grow. Then as we grow, we then are able to eat meat. We grow at a rate, not overnight.
Likewise we are born of the Spirit when we come to Christ, We , as new born babes, we need the milk of the Word. As we mature in Christ , we can eventually eat meat.

To be mature in Christ overnight is like a baby becoming an adult overnight, its just not going to happen.
But to grow healthy spiritually, we must daily have spiritual food, from the basics of the scriptures to the deeper complex things in scripture. The problem in our day is that those who have truly repented and received Christ as saviour, are remaining babes and not growing properly. Lack of daily reading the Word of God is the usual cause of lack of growth.

[Vania]

(10-30-2009 08:09 PM)art Wrote:  Lack of daily reading the Word of God is the usual cause of lack of growth.

I can relate to that statement! I have struggled with daily Bible reading but when I do it I know I grow!! And to think that people say that the Bible is 'just another old book'...wow! It sure is LIVING if it helps me grow...

[William]

(10-30-2009 08:09 PM)art Wrote:  Lack of daily reading the Word of God is the usual cause of lack of growth.

Yes, and the key phrase is the word of God: the King James Bible. I used to read my NASV faithfully .... well, regularly .... but it did not help me grow to any degree, and it did not help me overcome besetting sins. I'm not blaming my sins on that wretched, so-called "Bible;" the sins were the products of my flesh and my will. But once I came to the King James Bible, it was a different story! There is a power and authority in that Book that is indescribable, because it is supernatural.

"Devotionals" are fine. I like My Utmost for His Highest and Streams in the Desert (the originals, not the modernized, dumbed-down editions). They'll give you something to think about, or maybe set your mind in a Godly direction. But they're no substitute for the word of God. There's no real power there; there's certainly no real growth to be had there.

Millions of Christians, and people who think they are Christians, read the new versions every day. I suppose it's better than reading National Geographic: but, having done it for thirteen years, I'd have to say ... not much.

[art]

One of my pet theories and i think it is accurate is that "false versions begat false doctrine". Now this obviously has exceptions in some cases. If in some more isolated areas, a person picks up a NKJV for example and reads it, gets convicted by the Holy Spirit of his need of a saviour, and turns to Christ, that new born babe may have never ever heard of a KJ or heard anything about the version issue.
If that new believer reads faithfully the only Bible he has access to (NKJV), I think that the Lord will see his heart and his hunger to learn of the saviour and honor that man by letting him grow.
But those who turn away from the KJ to these other versions, it is a different story.

On a parallel note, I know of an assembly elder who used nothing but the KJ but his roving eye to woman (and he was 80) and his bragging of how he was a 747 pilot every time he stood up to share or was called to give a message, marked him as a fleshy elder.

But aside from these exceptions, born again blood bought believers in our Lord Jesus Christ should feed upon the literary masterpiece of all the ages, the ancient and proven and the preserved Word of God, the King James Bible.

[William]

(10-30-2009 09:55 PM)art Wrote:  One of my pet theories and i think it is accurate is that "false versions begat false doctrine". Now this obviously has exceptions in some cases. If in some more isolated areas, a person picks up a NKJV for example and reads it, gets convicted by the Holy Spirit of his need of a saviour, and turns to Christ, that new born babe may have never ever heard of a KJ or heard anything about the version issue.

Yes. Some people seriously ask, "Can you get saved reading a new version?" Of course! The LORD'S hand is not shortened, that it cannot save, and you can get saved reading a cartoon tract, or, in the case of children and pre-literates, a "wordless book." But the baby has to leave the delivery room; if he stays there, he might grow, but it won't be what the Father has in mind.

Quote:If that new believer reads faithfully the only Bible he has access to (NKJV), I think that the Lord will see his heart and his hunger to learn of the saviour and honor that man by letting him grow.

Yes, just as a genuine savage can be touched and convicted through the revelation of nature and conscience. But if his heart is right, God will get the word to him. If a Christian's heart is right, God will show him the authentic Bible: but, speaking from experience, it's possible to be deceived. When one's pastor and teachers and mentors and friends are telling him that this or that version is "best," it's easy to believe.

Quote:But those who turn away from the KJ to these other versions, it is a different story.

Yes, it's just a polite form of apostasy.

Quote:On a parallel note, I know of an assembly elder who used nothing but the KJ but his roving eye to woman (and he was 80) and his bragging of how he was a 747 pilot every time he stood up to share or was called to give a message, marked him as a fleshy elder.

But aside from these exceptions, born again blood bought believers in our Lord Jesus Christ should feed upon the literary masterpiece of all the ages, the ancient and proven and the preserved Word of God, the King James Bible.

Amen. Believing the King James does not make one invulnerable to sin, pride, or the flesh, any more than getting saved does. But, for a saved man or woman, believing the true word of God makes victory possible.

[cassjade]

(10-30-2009 10:27 PM)William Wrote:  

(10-30-2009 09:55 PM)art Wrote:  One of my pet theories and i think it is accurate is that "false versions begat false doctrine". Now this obviously has exceptions in some cases. If in some more isolated areas, a person picks up a NKJV for example and reads it, gets convicted by the Holy Spirit of his need of a saviour, and turns to Christ, that new born babe may have never ever heard of a KJ or heard anything about the version issue.

Yes. Some people seriously ask, "Can you get saved reading a new version?" Of course! The LORD'S hand is not shortened, that it cannot save, and you can get saved reading a cartoon tract, or, in the case of children and pre-literates, a "wordless book." But the baby has to leave the delivery room; if he stays there, he might grow, but it won't be what the Father has in mind.

Quote:If that new believer reads faithfully the only Bible he has access to (NKJV), I think that the Lord will see his heart and his hunger to learn of the saviour and honor that man by letting him grow.

Yes, just as a genuine savage can be touched and convicted through the revelation of nature and conscience. But if his heart is right, God will get the word to him. If a Christian's heart is right, God will show him the authentic Bible: but, speaking from experience, it's possible to be deceived. When one's pastor and teachers and mentors and friends are telling him that this or that version is "best," it's easy to believe.

Amen, that is exactly what happened to me. I was shown the gospel though an NIV which led to me getting saved and that is the Bible that I was told to use. The difference was, unlike James White and the rest of the NIV bunch, I actually believed that what I had in my hands was the perfect word of God and I trusted every word in it. God started slowly changing my mind about what the true Bible was. I gradually shifted. I read the King James at home and the NIV at school. Soon all I read was the King James and shortly after that I was shown the truth about the King James and why it is superior to all of the others.
That is why in dealing with people who are ignorant about the Bible issue I generally go slow and not just pounce on them. It always seems come up eventually in preaching or Bible study and the person will see a difference and ask about it.
When I was in Kansas preaching at a church this summer I happened to read 2 verses that were relevant to the message and mentioned that they had been changed in every other Bible and by changing them you lost truth.
Right after I finished I had 2 different people come up and say that they had never heard that before and wanted to know more about it. I was able to get them hooked up with some material to help them and hopefully they are straight on their Bible now.

[William]

(10-30-2009 10:57 PM)cassjade Wrote:  That is why in dealing with people who are ignorant about the Bible issue I generally go slow and not just pounce on them. It always seems come up eventually in preaching or Bible study and the person will see a difference and ask about it.
When I was in Kansas preaching at a church this summer I happened to read 2 verses that were relevant to the message and mentioned that they had been changed in every other Bible and by changing them you lost truth.
Right after I finished I had 2 different people come up and say that they had never heard that before and wanted to know more about it. I was able to get them hooked up with some material to help them and hopefully they are straight on their Bible now.

Yes, that sounds very familiar. When I make some mild reference to differences in this or that verse, I get one of two reactions: either the one you described, or smirking and hostility. Someone who's ignorant of the issues will say, "You're kidding! Tell me more!" (Or words to that effect.) But someone who is "serving God" on their own terms will almost sneer: "Oh, you're one of those KJB Only types."

I run into that with my oldest (not my best) Christian friends. The brothers with whom I enjoyed such close fellowship during my early Christian life have, for the most part, become Rick Warren megachurch types; or, in some cases, rank liberals. It's very depressing. But in those days, none of us were using the King James: we all used the NASV. And the brothers I'm describing went to liberal Hell-holes like Fuller Seminary. That's when they hardened in their anti-KJB position; beforehand, they were just ignorant of the issues. We all were.

And I was right on the track to join them. I was a senior in college (although in my early thirties), and scheduled to go to Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, when a young brother in my Constitutional Law class, after months of friendly fellowship, asked me if I'd ever heard of a guy named Ruckman. He knew me well enough to know how I'd react: I appreciated plain talk.

Being crafty, this patient, intelligent Ruckmanite caught me with guile!

:laughi10:

[Jeff]

(10-31-2009 12:19 AM)William Wrote:  Being crafty, this patient, intelligent Ruckmanite caught me with guile!

Yeah, amen brother. That's good. If I remember correctly, it was a good friend and former coworker of mine who got his hands on a copy of Riplinger's New Age Bible Versions that first got me to thinking about the Bible Version issue. I had always believed the Bible and never doubted a word, I was just ignorant and unaware of the major differences in translations and the manuscript origins of the "two historical lines" of Bibles. It was an easy transition for me. All I "lost" was the confusion of trying to decide what "version of the day" to read, and I gained the certainty that The Book I held in my hands was THE word of God. Prasie the Lord.

(I think this thread is derailed )

[Laura]

(10-31-2009 08:41 AM)Jeff Wrote:  (I think this thread is derailed )

You got me thinking again, Jeff. So, I split the last few posts from the Muddled Thinking thread and made Art's post the OP because it's a topic that deserves to stand on its own and not be buried as a secondary thought in another thread.



Oh, and for the record, I heartily all of the above posts!

[Here Am I]

I truly have been blessed, because I was introduced to the King James Bible immediately after being born again.

The same week I was saved, I asked my 'mentor' to recommend a good 'easy to read' Bible. We went to a Christian bookstore, and he led me to the King James section, showing me a couple different types of study Bibles. Then he left me alone to browse and make my decision: I got an 'old' Scofield, which I have used since.

This same person also introduced me to Dr. Ruckman's works, partly through the TSA (Theological Seminar on the Air) which, unfortunately, is no longer available on the web. It was strong meat for a milk Christian, but I kept chewing on it until I was able to get Scriptural nutrition from it!

I've never used a MV, and I pray I never will!