Are the supernatural sign gifts for today?

[Jennifer]

There are a lot of manifestations of the so called "sign gifts" today, and they are increasing in number as time passes, and increasing in their intensity, with regard to the power behind them!
Just where do these so called" sign gifts" originate from and what is their purpose?

We have been told to "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed rightly dividing the word of truth." 11 Tim. 2:15. By the way, you won't find this meaning to this verse in the new perverted "bibles" as satan does not want us to rightly divide, his Word, as then we would get rid of error!)

All the Bible is for us, but not all about us. It is important when we read the Bible to see who the epistle was written to, who is was written by, and for what purpose. If we keep these simple things in mind, we will not go too far wrong. I believe it is very healthy of you to enquire, when you see someone disagreeing with your stand on healing, as far as the miraculous healing goes. It think it is very commendable of you, and I only want to point out to you and others who may be interested how the Holy Spirit reavealed these things to me, and how I am convinced of the ground on which I stand with regards to these issues. When I was all confused, having gone through that frightening experience, I said to my father, "You show me from the Word of God that these things are not for us today. That is the only way, I will believe." I quit my job in Cornwall, went to Scotland where my parents were travelling the U.K. and, as I said to you ,sat every day, sometimes for 8 hours, for 2 months, and I would not take dad's "views" but only the scriptural view! I was a slow learner, that was how long it took! I really wanted to believe otherwise, as the people involved were really nice people!

When my computer gets hot, it seems to shut down then I loose everything, so please forgive for being very brief, as I have already done a large post this moprning on sin, which I will post here somewhere, later, God willing!
The gifts in the church come under two headings;

1. The miraculous gifts, known as sign gifts. These had to do with the Apostles and Prophets. These were given "to confirm the Word." This was the evidence Christ gave to show that He truely was the Messiah of the O.T. who would be sent to die for sins. This is all part of the Messianic gospel to the Jews. These tongues, signs, miracles and wonders had nothing to do with us Gentiles. Matthew was written to the Jews, this is why we find the geneoalogy in the opening chapter of Matthew, and nowhere alse in the Gospels. Wherever, in the O.T. we see the term, "this people" this is always referring to God's prople, the Jews. We see this also in the N.T., this is a good clue to bear in mind when studying these things.
Also when we read in about "this gospel", it refers to the gospel of the Kingdom.

2. The gifts for edifiication. These involve evangelists, pastors and teachers. see Eph. 4:8-13; 1 Cor. 14:1-6.
These sign gifts operated in the early days of the Church, but now, if you will study the Epistles, they are conspicuous for their absence These latter gifts continue until the rapture.
The gospel of the grace of God is referred to as;

The Gospel of God
The Gospel of His Son
The Gospel of Christ
The Gospel of the Grace of God
The Gospel of His Glory
The Gospel of Our Salvation
The Gospel of Peace

Sorry I don't have time for all the reference, will later, if required!

The Gospel of the Kingdom, which was preached by, Christ, Matt.9:5, John the Baptist, Matt.3:2, the twelve, Matt. 10:6-8, and later the seventy, Luke 10:1
This was the Kingdom of Heaven, that was being offered to God's people, or "the kingdom which the heavens rule," as it was spoken of by Daniel, the prophet in the Book of Daniel, where the term was derived.
It was the good news that the Kingdom was, "at hand". It was excluseively for "the lost sheep of the house of Israel." Matt. 10:7-8.
This kingdom gospel was accompanied by healing of every description. Matt 4:23; 9:35; 10:7-8.
This gospel was proclaimed before the cross, and continued up until the rejection of their King, as they wouln't believe Him, even though He confirmed Who He was by the signs and miracles, "confirming the Word" that this certainly was their promised Messiah. This Gospel of the Kingdom will be preached again, during the Tribulation, when God again, takes up the "apple of His eye" His beloved people, the Jews,and has direct dealings again with them. At a later date, I will give all the references for the things I am telling you.

The Gospel of the Grace of God, could not be preached before the cross as Christ had not yet died, and it does concern the death, buriel, and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ. 1. Cor. 15:3,4. There is a curse for anyone who preaches any other Gospel than this Gospel. Gal. 1:6-9.
This is the Gospel, we preach today, in the day of grace. It is the good news of the salvation through the blood of Christ, atoned for at the cross of Calvary, as God throught His Holy Word told us in Isaiah. He has now become the Shephard, who has died for the sheep. Before under the old economy the sheep died for the Shephard! It was a "DO" as they were under the Law, now it is "DONE", as we are under Grace. "By grace are ye saved, through faith."

In the O.T. favour was only found in God's eyes through faith plus works. In the N.T. we can only find favour through faith in God's Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, although there must be works to prove this faith is real, see Epistle of 1 John. and the Book of James. The sacrifice of bulls and goats, only covered sin, it never made the guilty one whole or free from its curse, that is why they had to continually make sacrifices. But God has made one Scarifice, at the end of the age, so that He might put away sin, for all time. We do not have to be reminded of sin all the time. As worshippers, we have been purged, through the blood of the Lamb. Have you?
Our sins are not only covered, but they have been takan away as far as the east from the west, we are told, and He remembers them no more. We have a more perfect sacrifice for sins. We do not have to go up and make our own sacrifices on the altar. Christ has become our Sacrifice for us! If we will only repent of our sins and believe the gospel then we WILL be saved. No one can pluck us out of the Father's Hands. We are there for eternity.

This marvelous Gospel delivers us from the power, and penalty of sin and one day it will deliver us from the very presence of sin.
So we have a far more noble sacrifice than they, this sacrifice not only covers sins, but it takes away the guilt and cleanses the guilty soul that lies in sin. Unless we take that place, we can never be saved, it is only for the guilty, Hell deserving sinner. Praise God, I fit into that category, do you?

:exclamation::exclamation::exclamation::exclamation:

[William]

Very interesting study, sister! It will lead to much discussion, I'm sure. We feel strongly about the sign and service gifts, and we know that there are different gospels; we may not describe them in the same way, but we're reading off the same page, I think. I'll add my own two cents' worth when you're finished; you seemed to be in a hurry.

Pssst .... you missed "the Everlasting Gospel!" You know, the one this guy preaches:

:angel:

[Jennifer]

Thank you William. I thought you might enjoy it. You are dead right William, I did forget about the `Everlasting Gospel.' This is referred to in Revelation isn't it? This, I believe is exactly the same as the Gospel of the Kingdom, as it refers to the same time period, i.e. the great tribulation, when it will be preached again as in the days of John the Baptist etc. The Kingdom of Heaven will again be preached to the Nation of Israel, a national Gospel, as before, where those that will be saved will be saved through repentance and works. God's dealing with His people of old will resume as before the parenthesis (the day of grace) The the culmination of this will be Christ will ascending from glory, with His saints , at the second stage of the second coming, and Isreal will be `saved in a day. The Jews will proclaim, "what are these wounds in thine hands?". Christ will answer "...those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends." Zac.136.
I have my daughter and grandaughter staying for a few days, while my daughter's husband is away, so I don't have much time. But I am rearing to get back into the studies. I have something I have been meditating on today which I am looking forward to posting soon, I hope. You are in my prayers, William, as requested.
Looks like I owe the readers another apology. Iv'e done it again. I didn't edit this post as thoroughly as I should have! I posted this on the original forum, I have been posting on, then decided to also use it here, so please forgive me. I was answering a pentecostal who believes in all the sign gifts for today, just to fill you in!

[William]

(10-24-2009 04:43 AM)Jennifer Wrote:  Thank you William. I thought you might enjoy it. You are dead right William, I did forget about the `Everlasting Gospel.' This is referred to in Revelation isn't it? This, I believe is exactly the same as the Gospel of the Kingdom, as it refers to the same time period, i.e. the great tribulation, when it will be preached again as in the days of John the Baptist etc. The Kingdom of Heaven will again be preached to the Nation of Israel, a national Gospel, as before, where those that will be saved will be saved through repentance and works. God's dealing with His people of old will resume as before the parenthesis (the day of grace) The the culmination of this will be Christ will ascending from glory, with His saints , at the second stage of the second coming, and Isreal will be `saved in a day. The Jews will proclaim, "what are these wounds in thine hands?". Christ will answer "...those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends." Zac.136.

Yes and no, sister. The Everlasting Gospel contains a warning of impending judgment that was absent from earlier preaching, and there's no demand of actual faith in God: merely a command to fear Him and give Him glory:

And I saw another angel fly in the midst of Heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made Heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters (Rev. 14:6, 7). What follows is completely different from what happened earlier, because now the Tribulation is underway.

The fascinating thing about the verse is this: unless one "rightly divides" the scriptures, this passage creates a huge contradiction in the Bible! Paul said , But though we, or an angel from Heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. (Gal. 1:8). Well, here is an angel that is clearly preaching a different Gospel than Paul's gospel of the grace of God, and the angel is not accursed!

How say we to these things? Why, it's simplicity itself, if one isn't too lazy to rightly divide: as we've said elsewhere, one should always ask, "Who's speaking? To whom are they speaking? What's the context?" Paul was speaking to saved Christians in the church age. This angel is preaching to the entire population of the earth during the Tribulation. Therefore, there is no contradiction.

Quote: I have my daughter and grandaughter staying for a few days, while my daughter's husband is away, so I don't have much time. But I am rearing to get back into the studies. I have something I have been meditating on today which I am looking forward to posting soon, I hope. You are in my prayers, William, as requested.

I thank you! The prayers are reciprocated.

Quote:Looks like I owe the readers another apology. Iv'e done it again. I didn't edit this post as thoroughly as I should have! I posted this on the original forum, I have been posting on, then decided to also use it here, so please forgive me. I was answering a pentecostal who believes in all the sign gifts for today, just to fill you in!

Well, that's the problem with reprinting our posts from other forums. You should at least do some editing and rewriting. Two of my posts in the "Salvation Then and Now" thread were written for a huge secular forum, if you can imagine such a thing; and I had to completely rewrite them for this one!

:laughi10:

[Jennifer]

William said;
"Yes and no, sister. The Everlasting Gospel contains a warning of impending judgment that was absent from earlier preaching, and there's no demand of actual faith in God: merely a command to fear Him and give Him glory:"


"And I saw another angel fly in the midst of Heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made Heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters (Rev. 14:6, 7). What follows is completely different from what happened earlier, because now the Tribulation is underway."

Yes, I do agree with you here William. I do ascribe to this fact. Didn't I say that salvation during this period of time was through repentance and works? I don't remember mentioning faith! This is the Gospel of the Kingdom, "Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance;" "And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire." Matt. 3:8,10.

We cannot deny what God 's Word tells us. I agree wholeheartedly with the fact that it doesn't require faith at this time, only obedience. "...Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made Heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters." (Rev. 14:6,7.) That is to have, the fear of God and give glory to Him. "Fear" is a wholesome dread of displeasing a Holy God. Something a true born again christian will have today, as they love Him!

[iSAVEDbyGRACEi]

(10-23-2009 06:26 PM)Jennifer Wrote:  When my computer gets hot, it seems to shut down then I loose everything,

This might be because either your power supply, or the fan is not working properly. It happened to my laptop. I simply opened it and discovered a block of dust was stopping the fan. It worked fine after a good cleaning. Praise the Lord.