AV Bible Believers Fellowship

Thousands of Indonesian Muslims protest US church's plan to burn Koran on 9/11

Is this a good thing, or a bad thing? When a threat to burn a copy of the Islamic "holy" book (the Koran) by an obscure Gainesville, Florida church, incites thousands of Muslims half-way around the world in Indonesia to protest outside the U.S. Embassy there, one wonders at the wisdom of such a decision. Is it ever wise to deliberately stir a hornet's nest?

After all, you're dealing with the followers of a "faith" that is so fanatical in some circles that people have been murdered over the publication of a political cartoon of their prophet Mohamed. But, however wise (or unwise) the decision, it is only the tip of the iceberg of growing anti-Islamic sentiment in the United States. That is a reality.

The notion of the building of an Islamic center/mosque complex a block or two from ground-zero in New York has plucked a cord of anti-Muslim protest across the heartland of America. There is a huge protest rally planned in New York this coming 911 and, For US Muslims, a 9/11 anniversary like no other.

The political left has branded this upwelling from the heartland as Bigotry and Intolerance, and against the principles of the American Constitution, i.e. freedom of religion and human rights. This is the party-line of the current presidential administration. But is that REALLY the case? No!

Although some on the political right have seized upon this upwelling, and are using it in furtherance of their own political agenda against the left, they too have misinterpreted the true heart at the spirit of this movement.

What we are witnessing, as history unfolds before our eyes, is a growing push towards a clash of civilizations, between the "Christian" world and the "Islamic" world; between western culture and eastern culture; between the people of the Bible and the people of the Koran. It is an issue of who will control the power in this world. And the eventual outcome of this struggle will ultimately culminate at the battle of Armageddon. Behind all of the jockeying and positioning for global power is the unseen spirit of antisemitism and the hatred of Israel.

As Bible believing Christians, we have chosen to throw our lot in with God and His chosen people. Even though Israel is presently the Christian's enemy for the Gospel's sake (see Romans 11:28), we love them because they are God's elect, and someday, during the great tribulation, they will once again turn to the Lord God in true righteousness (see Deuteronomy 4:30-31). But for now, not only does blinded Israel hate the Christian, but so does the rest of the world, and especially the fanatical core of Islam. Bible believing Christians should know this and recognize the spiritual threat, and know where all this is leading.

To some well-meaning people, burning a Koran or setting a torch to a mosque construction site in Tennessee, or protesting against a proposed mosque in NY is something that should be done in zeal and defense of the Christian faith, but we are not called to do such things and those that do such lack understanding. In this present world, our mission is to save souls, not cause estrangement from the Word of God because of our zeal for the truth. Our battle is not for political control of this present world.

Solomon said there is a time for everything (see Ecclesiastes 3:17), and if the current things going on is this world have gotten you into a 'fighting mood' over the way things are going, just remember that our time to really fight is yet to come (see Revelation 19:11-21). In the meantime, doing things like burning a Koran, and making a big deal about it, is nothing less than grabbing a dog by the ears. It is not a wise thing to do. (See Proverbs 26:17).

I have a dear Jewish friend, who I met at a large secular forum devoted mainly to politics; it was a truly worldwide forum. He posted a vid of himself urinating on a Koran (only the Koran in the toilet was visible, not the guy), and he was banned from the forum. No big deal; he started his own forum, which thrived.

But I don't think his act was necessary, and I think a church burning the Koran, as a church activity, is way off-base.

Not because I have any respect for the Koran, but because I think the church has better things to do with its time. As for my friend's video, I don't even think the Koran deserves that much of my attention! Why "defile" it? It's a dead book by a dead "prophet" for a dead religion. I seem to recall something about letting the dead bury the dead....

Based upon Acts 19:19, If there were in the church some muslims who had recently been saved, and still had their copies of the stinking book, then I could see the point them bringing it before the church to be burned. Perhaps that is the case. However it seems unlikely, because if it were the case, then the sooner the better and there would be no need to plan it on a certain day that is so emotionally charged. However, who am I to judge that church or their motives?

Of course none of them were saying anything when they were beheading 3 Christian school girls a few years ago and persecuting Christians all over the country like they are still doing now. They're as big of hypocrites as they pharisees who were worried about getting defiled by going into the judgment hall while they were lying in order to murder Jesus Christ.

http://www.christiantoday.com/article/sh...d/4397.htm
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/04/indone...dings.html

And besides all that, how much attention and protest would happen if THEY were to burn a Bible?

I am thankful that I have hope in something besides this world...

The link below is to an article about a 'moderate' mosque in Florida, who were caught on tape saying less than moderate things:

http://www.rightsidenews.com/20100904115...front.html

And here is an article (in full) about a woman who did some investigating on her own, using her knowledge of Arabic:

Quote:Muslim Jihad Comes To Small Town, USA

It happened again this week. I came out of the office to find a flyer under my windshield wipers inviting me to a special informational presentation on God and family values, and how to bring them back to the forefront in America.

I'm a parent, so the flyer caught my interest. But as an analyst for the Northeast Intelligence Network, my eyes were riveted to the address on the flyer: The session was being held at a nearby mosque.

Curiosity got the better of me, and I decided it would be a good time for some onsite investigations of the mosque. In order to not attract undue attention, I dressed conservatively, wearing a navy jumper with a long sleeve white blouse, and low heels. I debated whether or not to put on a hijab (head scarf) then decided not to. After all, I was going to "learn," not to pretend I was a Muslim.

I checked the mosque schedule on the Web, and discovered there was going to be an Arabic language session an hour before. So I showed up an hour early. The imam met me at the door, and told me that the presentation didn't start for an hour, and suggested I come back in an hour. Fortunately, I had anticipated this. I explained that since I had quite a bit of reading to do for a class I was taking. "Can I just sit here and read?"

He hesitated a moment, then agreed. I sat in the back of the room, with my book open, and made a mental note to remember to turn the pages every so often, as I listened to the speakers in Arabic.

The first speaker was the head of the Muslim Students' Association at the nearby university. Although I missed the beginning of the discussion, I caught up quickly. He was talking about the problems he had encountered on a recent trip, when TSA flagged him for extra screening. He joked about the fact that they had stopped him for extensive screening. He had anticipated that he would be screened and he had filled his carryon luggage with printouts of the Quran from the Internet, and had 15 or 16 CDs labeled in Arabic, and he had a notebook computer with him.

As he expected, he was delayed he thought it was very amusing that while several TSA personnel were scrutinizing his personal belongings that his classmate from Jordan was able to walk through security, along with his American girlfriend, without any problems whatsoever.

One of the men said, in Arabic: "Blonde Americans are good for something!" Another man advised him to be cautious, since there was an American woman in the room. The imam spoke up and told everyone I didn't speak Arabic.

At that point, another student took the podium. His name was Khaled, and he began to recount his recent trip to New York City. Khaled and three of his companions had gone to New York for several days in January. He told of how uncomfortable his trip up to NYC had been. He felt like he was being watched, and thought he was the victim of racial profiling.

Khaled and his friends were pretty unhappy about it, and while in New York, they came up with a plan to "teach a lesson" to the passengers and crew. You can imagine the story Khaled told. He described how he and his friends whispered to each other on the flight, made simultaneous visits to the restroom, and generally tried to "spook" the other passengers. He laughed when he described how several women were in tears, and one man sitting near him was praying.

The others in the room thought the story was quite amusing, judging from the laughter. The imam stood up and told the group that this was a kind of peaceful civil disobedience that should be encouraged, and commended Khaled and his friends for their efforts.

He pointed out that it was through this kind of civil disobedience that ethnic profiling would fail.

One of the other men, Ahmed from Kuwait, gave a brief account of his friend Eyad, who had finally gone to Iraq. Ahmed was in e-mail contact with Eyad, and hoped by the following week to be able to bring them more information about the state of the "mujahideen" in Iraq.

As the meeting drew to a close, the imam gave a brief speech calling for the protection of Allah on the mujahideen fighting for Islam throughout the world, and reminded everyone that it was their duty as Muslims to continue in the path of jihad, whether it was simple efforts like those of Khaled and his friends, or the actual physical fighting of men like Eyad.

As the meeting broke up, several women in hijabs came in the room, and two of them sat with me. They were very warm and friendly and welcoming, and appeared to be clearly thrilled that I was there. They asked me questions about who I was, and why I was interested in the session.

By the time the session began, there were half a dozen American women, four of them African-American. Where the previous session had definite anti-American tones, this session was all American and Apple Pie. The earlier session had been in Arabic this one was in English.

The woman leading the session, Nafisa, told of the concerns she had regarding her daughters in the public-school system. She complained about the influence of the MTV culture, and seemed concerned about the rampant sexuality that pervaded all facets of American life, from television to movies and on into the school system.

She explained her personal solution -­ the local Islamic school, beginning with kindergarten. Instead of worrying about her daughters dressing provocatively and behaving inappropriately with boys, she talked about the modest school uniforms they wore, and the single-gender classes her daughters attended.

She then began to discuss Islam, focusing on the commonalities it has with Christianity. The sales pitch had clearly begun. While in the previous section, the men had quoted over and over again sura from the Quran calling for violent jihad, the women's session focused on the "gentler" side of Islam.

The same imam who demanded that the men continue in the path of jihad did a complete 180-degree turn in this session, stressing instead the suras that promoted the "brotherhood" between Muslims, Christians and Jews. "After all, we worship the same God, and follow the teachings in the books he gave each of us. We are all the same, we are all People of the Book," he stressed.

The differences between the sessions were striking. Clearly the second session was a recruiting session.

Were the women aware of what was being taught in the first session? Certainly those women who spoke Arabic should have been.

The reason for concern is obvious: Two different doctrines are being promoted. One peaceful, friendly, warm and fuzzy doctrine is being used to draw people in, with a focus on the wellbeing of their children.

But the Arabic-speaking sessions clearly have an anti-American tone.

It shows clearly that as much as we'd like to pretend it hasn't, jihad has reached Small-Town, USA. This mosque isn't in Washington, D.C., or New York City. This is a small mosque in a small town in the deep South.

And if it's in this tiny little quiet southern town, it's probably in your hometown, too.

[Laura Mansfield is a freelance writer with over 20 years of experience dealing with Middle East issues. She is fluent in written and spoken Arabic, and has an excellent understanding of the complex cultural, religious and historical issues. Her experience includes nearly seven years living and working in the region for a wide range of private and government clients.]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1691391/posts

(09-05-2010 01:07 PM)Daniel Wrote: [ -> ]Based upon Acts 19:19, If there were in the church some muslims who had recently been saved, and still had their copies of the stinking book, then I could see the point them bringing it before the church to be burned.

Ah, very good point. Under such circumstances, I'd be all in favor of a cheerful bonfire: just as I'd burn occult books and charms if a bunch of occultists had been saved and joined the church. In these cases, one would be helping new Christians remove evil influences from their life.

But as a political/religious "gesture" or publicity stunt? No.

I'm so depressed. I'm writing this with tears. In 1975 I lived with a wonderful family in a village in Tunisia, North Africa and traveled around the country and visited with people in their homes. I was treated wonderfully by 100% of the people I met. I had no bad experiences whatsoever with people. I had food poisoning but that's another story. I know what I experienced was real. Nobody had one single problem with me as a woman, American, Christian, whatever. Everyone, everyone, everyone was kind to me! Everyone! I spent hours and hours holding a Muslim baby boy in my arms. I loved him.

Fast forward to today. I've spent x amount of hours on the internet today and it is saturated with war propaganda involving Western World v. Islam. I know how messed up the Muslim religion is but it's been messed up since the 7th century. What is going on? All of a sudden there's a problem? We're being groomed, prepped for war. I'm so sick of war. I've been worried about war my entire life. I hate war. I hate war. I hate war! It's Oceania and who are we at war with today? All I can do is cry. I'm so sick of these manupulators.

(09-05-2010 07:33 PM)Lynne Wrote: [ -> ]I'm so depressed. I'm writing this with tears. In 1975 I lived with a wonderful family in a village in Tunisia, North Africa and traveled around the country and visited with people in their homes. I was treated wonderfully by 100% of the people I met. I had no bad experiences whatsoever with people. I had food poisoning but that's another story. I know what I experienced was real. Nobody had one single problem with me as a woman, American, Christian, whatever. Everyone, everyone, everyone was kind to me! Everyone! I spent hours and hours holding a Muslim baby boy in my arms. I loved him.

Fast forward to today. I've spent x amount of hours on the internet today and it is saturated with war propaganda involving Western World v. Islam. I know how messed up the Muslim religion is but it's been messed up since the 7th century. What is going on? All of a sudden there's a problem? We're being groomed, prepped for war. I'm so sick of war. I've been worried about war my entire life. I hate war. I hate war. I hate war! It's Oceania and who are we at war with today? All I can do is cry. I'm so sick of these manupulators.

Steady there, sister. I sympathize with your feelings and your dismay, and I admire your tender heart; but our hearts, which are deceitful above all things, must not rule our heads.

9/11 wasn't in the 7th century; it was only a few years ago. Women are being stoned to death for displeasing their husbands in Muslim countries right now; adolescent girls are being gang-raped because (in a wonderful display of Islamic logic) they are "impure." If you want the videos of Nick Berg's beheading, I know where they are. Islam is the most savage and barbarous belief system in history, including Marxism and Naziism. (The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was one of Hitler's biggest supporters.) None of this is the work of the "manipulators." Iraq was a trumped-up war, that looked very much like the "permanent conflict" of Oceana; and it will continue in Afghanistan. But that doesn't mean that the enemy, humanly speaking, is not real.

Do the manipulators exist? Have they hidden the truth about 9/11? Yes; but that doesn't change the fact that the Mohammedans were involved, and took the point in the attack. We are dealing with atavistic savages who just happen to have 21st-century weapons. That's why there's suddenly a big stink about Islam, after 14 centuries. It's not that the "religion" just surfaced; it just finally developed the technological and military means to move beyond the deserts.

People who are conspiracy-minded see the connections between the Bush family and Saudi Arabia, or Obama's Muslim roots. Fine; those things are all there. But that doesn't make Mohammedanism any less savage. Lindbergh and Ford wanted to appease Hitler; shame on them. But it didn't diminish Hitler's wickedness.

I'm glad the Tunisians were such lovely people. I have known lovely Arabs and Palestinians, too, and have written about them in this forum. They ate in my home; one came to my wedding, toaster in hand, like any good friend. But they were renegades. By the tenets of their "religion," they should have killed me.

The "religion of peace" couldn't have become such a worldwide threat while the Cold War raged. The most they could do was commit constant atrocities against Israel, and tie the Soviets down in Afghanistan. But now that the Soviets are gone, and China is buying our government on the sly, the Mohammedans have a free hand.

I'm not worried about them. They're not going to win. Like Catholicism, Protestantism, and even mainline Judaism, they will be co-opted and absorbed by the Antichrist. But in the meantime, let's not become so discouraged that we refuse to see the truth. That's Israel in Iran's bombsights: and the "manipulators" didn't invent that situation. The women and children of the Islamic world are being treated like chattel and worse. We cannot judge on the basis of your friendly Tunisians, or my friendly Arab-Americans.

Buck up, sister. I'm not interested in a war against Islam; the war we've been called to is bigger than that. And we mustn't flag in our devotion to our Saviour and Lord.

(09-05-2010 07:33 PM)Lynne Wrote: [ -> ]I'm so depressed. I'm writing this with tears. In 1975 I lived with a wonderful family in a village in Tunisia, North Africa and traveled around the country and visited with people in their homes. I was treated wonderfully by 100% of the people I met. I had no bad experiences whatsoever with people. I had food poisoning but that's another story. I know what I experienced was real. Nobody had one single problem with me as a woman, American, Christian, whatever. Everyone, everyone, everyone was kind to me! Everyone! I spent hours and hours holding a Muslim baby boy in my arms. I loved him.

It all changed in 1979 in my opinion. The Ayatollah and the take over of Iran. American Embassy. That is when this militant form of Islam exploded on the scene.