AV Bible Believers Fellowship

Full Version: Desire the sincere milk of the word (formerly MUDDLED THINKING?)
You're currently viewing a stripped down version of our content. View the full version with proper formatting.
Pages: 1 2
(10-30-2009 09:55 PM)art Wrote: [ -> ]One of my pet theories and i think it is accurate is that "false versions begat false doctrine".

Not meaning to cut you off, but that's a good thought. Let us stop, and park here awhile. This isn't exactly Art's point, but it's related:

If I recall correctly from my one economics course in college, there is something called "Gresham's Law." This is simply the statement that "bad money drives out good." It works this way: say that your nation's currency is made of silver. Silver coins, like American quarters and half dollars and dimes used to be. Then, the government begins to introduce copper coins. They might have the same face value, a quarter might still be worth 25 cents, but everybody knows that the silver coins are better. So, what happens? People start saving their silver coins, and hoarding them. They only spend the copper coins. So, in time, the "bad money" (cheap copper coins) drives the "good money" (silver coins) out of circulation, and the only thing you see anymore is the cheap stuff. Bad money drives good money out of circulation.

It works that way with Bibles, too. When I was saved (1969), my very first job was in a Christian bookstore. 90% of the Bibles we stocked were King James Bibles. We had a few Living Bibles, and a few "Good News" Bibles, but the bestseller was the King James. (The less popular New Testaments, like Phillips and Williams, were gathering dust on a bottom shelf somewhere.) Then, in the next year or so, the complete New American Standard Version was published in one volume. Because the "scholars" said it was the best, and the pastors obey the scholars like the Israelites obeyed Pharaoh, it quickly became a big bestseller - - - because the pastors were recommending it to their befuddled congregations. Then, a few years later, came the New International Version, which became even more popular. Eventually, since the scum always rises to the surface, the "New King James" was published in 1982, and was lustily endorsed by the independent Baptists like Falwell, as well as by many other denominational leaders. And very soon, in any "Christian bookstore" in America, the King James became harder and harder to find. The bad Bibles were driving the good Bible, the real Bible, out of circulation.

It even works that way with sound doctrine. We could talk about the decline of Christian magazines, like Moody Monthly or Eternity, both of which were once fine publications; but, since very few of us read Christian magazines any more (and there are very few worth reading), let's look at internet forums, like this one.

I'm not gonna criticize any other forums. But let's think about this one for a minute. Assume that, by God's grace, this blessed little place continues to grow, one member at a time. But, instead of really maintaining the standards that God has placed on our hearts, say that we start letting folks promote false doctrines. Maybe "Lordship Salvation," or "baptismal regeneration," or the charismatic stuff. We don't change our statement of faith; we still have our core beliefs; but we allow the other stuff, too. You know what would happen.

Pretty soon, the false doctrine (and/or arguments over false doctrine) would spread. If two or three charismatics were posting their stuff, more would join. If we let some Sabbath-observing types post their stuff, they'd be joined by others, who would join specifically to "back them up." (I've seen the Judaizers take over the Religion section of a large secular forum.) And pretty soon....

Pretty soon, the people who believe in rightly dividing the word of truth, and submitting to nothing but the King James Bible, would get sick of all the hassle, and gradually drift away. They'd post less and less, or maybe seek other forums. And this forum would become nothing but a place of competing heresies and endless arguments. The bad doctrine would have driven out the good. And at some point in all this, the King James Bible would be abandoned, slowly at first, then completely; because the King James Bible doesn't support bad doctrine.

As Art says, bad Bibles produce bad doctrine; and an acceptance of bad doctrine leads away from the real Bible. It has happened in many churches, and in many forums, and could happen here, apart from the sheer grace of God.

That's why we worry so much about off-brand doctrines being promoted here: and that's why every member of the Moderating team would sooner pull this forum offline than see it become what it could become.

We need your prayers, and your participation. We need the good stuff, to keep the bad stuff out.
It is scary to me to think about trying to serve God or even find God without having a perfect Bible to trust in. Apart from the KJB 1611 I have no other way of knowing God or of knowing his will. Without His perfect holy Bible I can only pray and then guess at what I think God is telling me.
:frown: If God had not preserved his Word for us and all we had was differing versions that disagreed with one another then we would never really know what was true and what was not. The Mormons could be right. The Jehovah's Witnesses. There would be no way for me to truly know. That would be so scary.
(11-02-2009 05:14 PM)anneBiblestone Wrote: [ -> ]It is scary to me to think about trying to serve God or even find God without having a perfect Bible to trust in. Apart from the KJB 1611 I have no other way of knowing God or of knowing his will. Without His perfect holy Bible I can only pray and then guess at what I think God is telling me.
:frown: If God had not preserved his Word for us and all we had was differing versions that disagreed with one another then we would never really know what was true and what was not. The Mormons could be right. The Jehovah's Witnesses. There would be no way for me to truly know. That would be so scary.

Amen Anne. Those are some very valid insights. To take it one step further, if my entire KJB1611 isn't true, how do I know what parts of it are and what parts of it aren't? My very salvation depends on my being able to believe it, beginning to end, because if I can't believe what Moses wrote, for example, how do I know I can believe what the apostles wrote of Jesus' life and teachings, or how do I know I can believe what Paul wrote?

1Co 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
(11-02-2009 05:19 PM)Laura Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-02-2009 05:14 PM)anneBiblestone Wrote: [ -> ]It is scary to me to think about trying to serve God or even find God without having a perfect Bible to trust in. Apart from the KJB 1611 I have no other way of knowing God or of knowing his will. Without His perfect holy Bible I can only pray and then guess at what I think God is telling me.
:frown: If God had not preserved his Word for us and all we had was differing versions that disagreed with one another then we would never really know what was true and what was not. The Mormons could be right. The Jehovah's Witnesses. There would be no way for me to truly know. That would be so scary.

Exactly!
Amen Anne. Those are some very valid insights. To take it one step further, if my entire KJB1611 isn't true, how do I know what parts of it are and what parts of it aren't? My very salvation depends on my being able to believe it, beginning to end, because if I can't believe what Moses wrote, for example, how do I know I can believe what the apostles wrote of Jesus' life and teachings, or how do I know I can believe what Paul wrote?

1Co 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

art

Something to add to this thought about" false Bibles begat false docrtrine", I belong to another board, not Shains, but a regular christian board where the believers there are serious over their christianity but are not necessarily KJ.
Catholics arrive and subtly post their venom. To which many of us immediately demand scriptural backup for these catholic beliefs. As always, they never can produce any backup, maybe a few odd verses pulled out of context. One is the notorious "full of grace", rather than the KJ usage "highly favored". So what happens is that the catholics start whining and crying "attack,attack" because we posted scripture against their theories.
But what is happening is that some christians i think are softening their responses and being more tolerant of catholic propaganda. The catholics literally say " we came here in peace and all you do is attack us".

So case in point , their catholic versions have contributed into a false view of Mary and the KJ's use of faults in James, becomes "confessing sins to a priest". And remit turns into forgive in John 20 and so on.

So the christians wanting to be loving, compromize and back off a little from posting against a catholic.

I am convinced, and I was reared in a catholic church/school/monastery, that catholicism is a cult, so deceptive that no matter how much scripture you post against them, that they are just keep coming to waterdown new testament christianity, like the waves of the sea. Corrupted catholic versions coupled with corrupted apocryphal additives have created a monster.
Many a good board has been dissolved by not keeping in check the waves of catholicism.
(11-03-2009 05:55 PM)art Wrote: [ -> ]Many a good board has been dissolved by not keeping in check the waves of catholicism.

I'm sure that's true. I haven't experienced the same forums you've experienced. But I've seen it in one place: a board called "Bible Forums," which is run by evangelicals and Pentecostals (its senior Moderator, or, rather, the leader of its "Ministry Team," is an 70 year old man who claims to have been a Pentecostal preacher since he was a preteen, and who is as big a blowhard and Pharisee as he sounds). That forum, which is enormous (as befits a mixed multitude), tolerates everybody who calls himself or herself a Christian: Catholics, Campbellites, Judaizers (7th Day Adventists and the like) and perhaps a few Mormons. I was banned from that site, as were several of our members, for politely but unapologetically defending the King James Bible. But that's an example of bad versions leading to bad doctrine and then to even worse versions.

I very much doubt, however, that many Catholics will seek to join this forum, especially if they read the statement of faith. If any were to sneak in as "change agents," I think our members (you're an excellent example) would spot them pretty quickly.

But anybody who changes God's words here, whether a Jesuit or one of the "Sword of the Lord" types, will be rebuked rather sharply. If we don't stand solidly and consistently for God's pure and perfect word, we might as well shut the place down - - - and we will, if that day ever arrives.
(11-02-2009 03:46 PM)William Wrote: [ -> ]Because the "scholars" said it was the best, and the pastors obey the scholars like the Israelites obeyed Pharaoh, it quickly became a big bestseller
It is as a friend of mine says "these scholars do not translate, they interpret

(11-02-2009 03:46 PM)William Wrote: [ -> ]And very soon, in any "Christian bookstore" in America, the King James became harder and harder to find. The bad Bibles were driving the good Bible, the real Bible, out of circulation.
How sad and true. And even recently I just picked up a plain KJB without any references for a whopping 23.99.


(11-02-2009 03:46 PM)William Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not gonna criticize any other forums. But let's think about this one for a minute. Assume that, by God's grace, this blessed little place continues to grow, one member at a time. But, instead of really maintaining the standards that God has placed on our hearts, say that we start letting folks promote false doctrines. Maybe "Lordship Salvation," or "baptismal regeneration," or the charismatic stuff. We don't change our statement of faith; we still have our core beliefs; but we allow the other stuff, too. You know what would happen.

Apostasy indeed....
Ga:5:9: A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.



(11-02-2009 03:46 PM)William Wrote: [ -> ](I've seen the Judaizers take over the Religion section of a large secular forum.) And pretty soon....
I think I know exactly what you mean and who you refer to.


(11-02-2009 03:46 PM)William Wrote: [ -> ]And this forum would become nothing but a place of competing heresies and endless arguments. The bad doctrine would have driven out the good. And at some point in all this, the King James Bible would be abandoned, slowly at first, then completely; because the King James Bible doesn't support bad doctrine.

Amen to that...It has indeed happened to others.
Pages: 1 2
Reference URL's