(08-27-2010 06:59 PM)Lynne Wrote: [ -> ]Thank you so much but I think Jesus is already, at this very moment, on the throne.
I realize what a huge can of worms this is. 
Hebrews 8
1Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
Yes, sister, He is indeed on the throne, seated at the right hand of the Father, in His glorified state as described in Revelation 1. Daniel is referring to the time when He will return to Earth and rule, in the Flesh, from the Throne of David in Jerusalem. That's the basic difference between Amillennialists and Pre-Millennialists: the former believe that Jesus' Kingdom is entirely spiritual; we premillennialists believe that it is certainly spiritual, but that, for 1,000 years, it will be physical as well.
This also gets into the difference between the Kingdom of God, which is within you, and the Kingdom of Heaven, which includes the heavens and earth. (Amillenialists, and not a few premillenialists, think that the terms are synonymous, but that wouldn't make any sense.) This study of sin leads in many interesting directions!
(08-27-2010 06:59 PM)Lynne Wrote: [ -> ]Thank you so much but I think Jesus is already, at this very moment, on the throne.
I realize what a huge can of worms this is.
Hebrews 8
1Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
Yes, you are absolutely right, but that is not the throne I'm talking about. The verse says, in the heavens. That is the throne above all thrones. Under that throne, are lesser thrones that are occupied by spiritual authorities. At present, Satan is the prince and power of the earth, he has spiritual authority over the earth, subject of course to God (Job 1&2).
Revelation 2:13 Â
I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr,
Satan's seat of power, his throne, is on earth. Jesus is the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords and he is seated on the Throne of thrones in the heavens. But one day, and I hope soon, Jesus will rise up and come to earth. He will depose Satan from the throne of earth, casting him in the pit for 1000 years. Jesus will sit upon the throne of David, he will restore the nation of Israel, he will physically rule and reign over the earth for 1000 years, he will rule with a rod of iron. Sadly, until then, Satan is the spiritual authority over the earth.
Sigh, I think I have confused you more, that was not my intent, I'm sorry.
Oh Daniel, please don't be sorry. I love and need to talk about these things.
What do y'all make of this?
Eph 1
20Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
21Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
(08-27-2010 08:24 PM)Lynne Wrote: [ -> ]Oh Daniel, please don't be sorry. I love and need to talk about these things.
What do y'all make of this?
Eph 1
20Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
21Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
Again vs. 20 says in heavenly places and vs. 21 says FAR ABOVE all principality... that is the Throne of thrones that is over all authorities. Vs. 23 puts all authorities under him including the throne of earth. Notice the last part of verse 21 "but also in that which is to come", the world that will be created after this world is destroyed. So not only is Jesus Christ exalted above all authorities now, during this world, but also he will be exalted above all authorities after this world is gone and it is made new. That is absolutely true, but it does not preclude Satan from being in the lesser seat of authority, over this planet, yet still in submission to Jesus Christ who is on the Throne in Heaven that is above all thrones.
In Job 1&2, Satan presented himself before God, among the sons of God, who had also come to present themselves to God. Satan, as the spiritual head of this planet, presented himself. The other sons of God presented themselves, as the spiritual heads of their respective realms. The Bible does not give detail concerning the other realms, because they are not concerned with this planet. We can guess concerning the others, but we don't have scriptural evidence, we can only extrapolate and surmise. Even though Satan, and most certainly all the others sons of God, has his realm of authority and his seat, his throne, it always has been and always will be submitted to the heavenly throne. The planetary thrones are under authority of the heavenly throne. When Jesus Christ finally deposes Satan from the planetary throne of earth, it will be once and for all. Satan will never again sit on a seat of authority, but will be held in the pit for 1000 years and then cast into the lake of fire for all eternity.
Oh, my head hurts.
I'm so sorry you have a headache!
So Jesus is the CEO but Satan is the rotten middle manager? By the rules of spiritual authority, we, the plebes, the earthlings, the dogs, take on Satan's corruption but somehow the rules of spiritual authority don't work on Satan, the middle manager, or don't work yet?
Col 2
3And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Satan wasn't one of the spoiled (past tense) principalities and powers?
Thank you so much for your help!
(08-27-2010 09:33 PM)Lynne Wrote: [ -> ]So Jesus is the CEO but Satan is the rotten middle manager? By the rules of spiritual authority, we, the plebes, the earthlings, the dogs, take on Satan's corruption but somehow the rules of spiritual authority don't work on Satan, the middle manager, or don't work yet?
Not exactly, but I suppose if it helps to use those terms. No, not Satan's, Adam's corruption (the first Adam). Yes the rules of spiritual authority work on Satan, that is why he is subject to God. His goal in life is to exalt
his throne above all else (Isaiah 14:12-14), the throne he was given was this planet. Completely hypothetically, if Jesus had bowed down and worshiped Satan, that very act would have exalted Satan above God. Satan would have followed through and given to Jesus the kingdoms of the earth, that is the earth, his throne and he would have ascended on high. Jesus and Satan would have switched places. That is what Satan was offering.
(08-27-2010 09:33 PM)Lynne Wrote: [ -> ]Col 2
3And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Satan wasn't one of the spoiled (past tense) principalities and powers?
Jesus Christ spoiled principalities and powers, by doing vs. 14 for us. We, the church, are very peculiar, we are strange in that spiritually we are no longer subject to the powers and authorities of the earth. We are seated together in heavenly places (Ephesians something). Unbelievers are not so, they are subject both physically and spiritually to the physical and spiritual authorities of this planet. Even though we are physically in subjection to the physical authorities, we are no longer subject spiritually (1 Peter 2:9). Jesus Christ snatched us out from under the earthly spiritual authority and we are no longer subject to it, we triumph over it through him, because we are in him. Spiritually, Satan, nor any of the powers (Ephesians 6) under him, can never touch us. That spiritual power over us is spoiled. Physically we can be beaten, persecuted, tortured, maimed, and killed; but spiritually we cannot be touched. Spiritually we are under no subjection to this world system!
(08-27-2010 06:19 PM)William Wrote: [ -> ]... Christ will set up His rule during the Millennium; that's when the lion lies down with the lamb. To that degree, nature is indeed healed and restored. But what about the planet itself? Will the Grand Canyon close up, and just be a smooth plain?
Very interesting indeed. I believe the planet itself will retain the scares, that the planets, animals, waters & skies will be restored. I believe even the soil will be restored and become fertile, yet the physical shape of the land masses (canyons, mountains, valleys, islands, continents) will not be altered.
Which is why at the end of the millennium it must be destroyed and recreated in preparation for the new age (the real new age...not the hokey revival of ancient eastern mysticism that has been branded and marketed as new), the new age in which all things will be made new; new heavens, new earth, and new Jerusalem.
