AV Bible Believers Fellowship

Well I'm sure not female, but I would advise any woman to not participate in such a thing.

First of all, I believe, and scripture teaches, that the Lord opens and closes the womb, and that infertility is from God. Why should we encourage people to circumvent God.

Second of all, considering what is going on with transhumanism experimentation, I would not trust them to only use those eggs for the stated purpose.

Whether or not it is a sin or a moral is a matter of interpretation. I would think the only example we have of God's opinion on such a thing would be the account of Onan. Given God's great displeasure with Onan for spilling his seed, I cannot imagine God not being displeased with a woman removing her eggs for whatever reason.

m2¢

I don't think there is a right or wrong answer here. It would be a decision that would require a lot of prayer and time in the Bible. If the Lord shows you can do it, then do it. If not, then don't. If the Lord shows you not to do it and you do, then it becomes sin...but that may not be the case in a woman where the Lord shows her it's okay. I think that the answer can be different with every individual.

Would I do it? My first and fleshly instinct says, "Sure...why not?" But that is answered without prayer & being in the Bible about it because I am not in that situation.

But then again, would the eggs go to a Christian family to raise a child to reap rewards in Heaven, or an unsaved family that has a child bound for Hell and never gets saved. ???

I have no idea if it's a sin or moral.

To be perfectly honest, I don't have a clear cut handle on what sin is. There are some things that are obviously sins to me because they are clearly identified as such in the Bible, homosexuality for instance, but often, I'm left guessing.

When I was a Catholic, it was very easy to get a grip on sin. If the Pope says it's a sin, it's a sin. Simple. The RCC has it all mapped out and even has categories of sin, e.g., mortal and venial. It was so easy and thoughtless. Birth control was a sin, period. A particular movie or book was a sin, period.

When I gave up Catholicism I was at sea. I asked my teacher in a Protestant Bible class what was sin. I knew the classic "missing the mark" concept, but what mark? Specifically? My teacher gave me a glazed look and told me to do a word study in the Bible. Sigh.

I still don't know what sin is, other than, as I said, the obvious one's specifically identified as such in the Bible.

It just isn't as easy as the RCC or Pharisees or I want it to be.

I guess I must rely on my relationship with my Father and ask Him directly and personally what He thinks about any given situation and hope my flesh doesn't get in the way. I sometimes rely on the counsel of Christians I trust. Lately I've been doing 1 John 1:9, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness," multiple times a day as new things from my past and present come to my mind. And sometimes, to be perfectly honest, I ask Him to forgive me the sins I can't remember and more importantly, don't even know are sins because I am so clueless.

It just baffles me. Christians could debate for days whether dancing is a sin, and that is something that David specifically does in the Bible (although David sins plenty in the Bible, so he is no guide, but you know what I mean). Or the pearl question I asked earlier. The Bible specifically tells women not to wear pearls, but there are godly (I think) explanations as to why it's okay.

I'm not even talking about legalism here. I don't have a handle on a basic working practical specific intrinsic definition of sin, per se, when it comes to lots of things.

Personally, I wouldn't donate my eggs. But maybe that's being selfish and a sin. Or not.

I ask God to forgive me because I'm in the "know not what I do" category a lot of the time.

Thank you all for your input.

I'm not sure if it is a sin or not, so I decided to start a discussion about it.

While reading Lynne's post, I was reminded of a passage in Romans:

"For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin." (Romans 14:20-23)

If you do something knowing that God doesn't want you to do it, it's sin. If you eat the meat that has been offered to idols, knowing it was offered to idols, then it is sin. If you eat, unawares of where it came from, it is not sin...at least that's my understanding of it. Meat and drink are not sin in themselves, but the motive behind eating them could be.

It's sort of like the 'age of accountability' issue, I think. Once you are aware of 'sin', then you are accountable to God. Before you understand the concept of 'sin', your sin(s) are not held against you, there is no transgression, the sin is not imputed:

"Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression." (Romans 4:15)

"(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law." (Romans 5:13)

I don't wear pants, because I have felt led to dress that way, I believe the Lord prefers it for me. If I started wearing pants, I think it would be a sin, because I knew the Lord didn't want me to do it, but other women wearing pants isn't necessarily a sin. It's between them and the Lord.

I'm not sure if I'm explaining myself well, here.

(08-24-2010 08:32 PM)Lynne Wrote: [ -> ]When I gave up Catholicism I was at sea. I asked my teacher in a Protestant Bible class what was sin. I knew the classic "missing the mark" concept, but what mark? Specifically? My teacher gave me a glazed look and told me to do a word study in the Bible. Sigh.

What mark, specifically? The mark of God's perfection. He's the One Who sets the standard of perfection required for our admittance to Heaven.

Right there is a topic for a spiritual thread!




Now, the OP:

I can't say for sure that donating eggs is a sin because the Bible is silent on it, specifically.

One question that comes to mind is "how is donating eggs any different than donating blood or other organs?"

Well the obvious answer is that new life isn't generated from blood or organ donations.

In that sense, I think it's dabbling in God's territory, which if it isn't sin in itself, sure can lead to it.

Personally, I wouldn't donate my eggs and sure wouldn't accept payment to do so. But my frame of reference is as a childless woman: I'm not gonna give someone else the option of having a child that's half my DNA when I don't have one myself!

Plus, the DNA question leads to a moral aspect: the medical history of the woman whose egg(s) are fertilized and later result in live birth. Are they anonymous donations? What if the donee or her family has a history of hereditary genetic conditions that the child should know about?

I am in the midst of this type of question on a daily basis, and have been for the last 18 months. In fact tomorrow is the 18 month anniversary of diagnosis.

I do not find science bad. It is part of our society and certain things are wonderful due to scientific discovery. I do however draw a line at things which try to take God's place with science.

I know Leviticus speaks of the life being in the blood. So are blood transfusions wrong? I do not think so because it helps in healing. I have had to have blood given to me since March of last year. Without it I could have died. Organ transplant is another area, I have had to come to a decision about. We all know what I have decided there, so I won't dwell on it.

Now to the Original Post. My wife and I were barren for the first 10.5 year of our marriage. We tried everything, though we hadn't gotten to teh point of considering egg transplant. We prayed much about it. Then I remembered an incident where my Grandpa was sick unto death back in 1962. My Grandma asked for an anointing service at his bedside. Within days he was up and around. What cured him? The oil or the prayer?

Charlotte and I went to our pastor and asked for an anointing service. The look on the face of that Baptist pastor was priceless. However he agreed and the service was perfomred. Within 2 weeks Charlie was pregnant, and Tyler the result of that pregnancy just turned 21 last June.

Why does God shut up the wombs of some and open those of others? I do not know. All I do know is transplanting eggs in my opinion is not God's will for anyone. It is man's attempt to circumnavigate God. Is it SIN? I don't think so, not everything contrary to God's will is sin. I think a person should pray about it deeply and let God tell them what to do.

(08-24-2010 07:15 PM)mrscassjade Wrote: [ -> ]But then again, would the eggs go to a Christian family to raise a child to reap rewards in Heaven, or an unsaved family that has a child bound for Hell and never gets saved. ???

Yes, that's quite a question, isn't it?

(08-25-2010 08:58 AM)Laura Wrote: [ -> ]What mark, specifically? The mark of God's perfection. He's the One Who sets the standard of perfection required for our admittance to Heaven.

Right there is a topic for a spiritual thread!

It certainly is!

Quote:I can't say for sure that donating eggs is a sin because the Bible is silent on it, specifically.

One question that comes to mind is "how is donating eggs any different than donating blood or other organs?"

Well the obvious answer is that new life isn't generated from blood or organ donations.

Right. I'm an organ donor (well, not yet, but you know what I mean), because I'd be glad to have my parts given to someone who could, by receiving them, live a longer or happier life. (But even that brings up a question: what if my parts go to a militant atheist or Muslim or some such ne'er-do-well?) That's an entirely different thing from creating a new life.

Quote:In that sense, I think it's dabbling in God's territory, which if it isn't sin in itself, sure can lead to it.

I agree. I also think that NASA is dabbling in God's territory. The entire purpose of space exploration is to disprove Genesis. But I digress....

Quote:Personally, I wouldn't donate my eggs and sure wouldn't accept payment to do so. But my frame of reference is as a childless woman: I'm not gonna give someone else the option of having a child that's half my DNA when I don't have one myself!

Plus, the DNA question leads to a moral aspect: the medical history of the woman whose egg(s) are fertilized and later result in live birth. Are they anonymous donations? What if the done or her family has a history of hereditary genetic conditions that the child should know about?

Those are all very worthwhile considerations. But let's look at this from the male point of view. There is no difference that I can see between egg donation and sperm donation. And I would never, ever be a sperm donor. To me, speaking only for myself, it's just wrong on so many levels.

Some wonderful young couple with an infertile husband could receive my sperm, and have a bouncing healthy baby. Yay! But that baby would, possibly, inherit a tendency toward heart disease, a tendency toward clinical depression, and who knows what else. Someone says, "Don't you run that risk when you father your own children?" Yes; but in that case, I am doing what God created and commanded me to do, and I'm taking responsibility for the child. I'm not just handing a test tube to a technician and saying "Good luck, kid!"

The issue of responsibility is the biggest part in my thinking. If it's my child, I want to look after it. And I want it to know what its real heritage is: the good, as well as the bad.

For me, William, it would be a grievous sin to cast my seed into the womb of a woman I didn't know and would never meet. Not a sexual sin, of course: a much, much deeper thing than that.

Anyway, that's my opinion.

Whatever happened to accepting your lot in life? There are options of adoption or fostering children.

We struggled to have a baby and I accepted my lot..immediately we put our names forward to adopt and after some little while we got our baby girl who is thirty now and I got pregnant which was a shock,then they kept coming.This technology was not available way back then and if it was I would not use it.

When you have to actually go to such extremes to have children it can't be in God's will but man's will.

I do know of one couple who have had two children of their own but because of a genetic condition that both parents are carriers of those children died in early infancy.They used her sister's eggs and they were transplanted into mum's womb and now they have a baby girl.I have kept my opinions to myself because they are christians and have suffered incredibly as have both sets of grandparents...they are happy so it's in God's hands.