AV Bible Believers Fellowship

Hey guys, this is a video documentary that a man in my church has been working on for a few years. I can't see the video because of my system, but I've seen enough of the movie itself to know it's excellent.

Please take a moment and check it out.

AGENDA: Grinding America Down

It looks like a well-intentioned, well-researched, and well-produced film. Not having seen it, I can't recommend it, but the advertisement itself is not explicitly Christian, and promulgates the left-right paradigm that I no longer believe to be the prevailing reality in world affairs. But that's my personal reaction, and is not intended as a criticism.

Thanks for sharing it, Brother Rick.

From what I've seen of it, it's not a conservative vs. liberal ideology as much as it is a history of how Judeo-Christian values have been systematically attacked and destroyed in America by Communists and their decedents, and how to resist it.

I just finished watching this, it was amazing. To sum up what the documentary historically demonstrates, it starts out with this quote:

"America is like a healthy body and its resistance is threefold: its patriotism, its morality, and its spiritual life. If we can undermine these three areas, America will collapse from within." - Joseph Stalin

(08-16-2010 01:05 AM)Rick Schworer Wrote: [ -> ]I just finished watching this, it was amazing. To sum up what the documentary historically demonstrates, it starts out with this quote:

"America is like a healthy body and its resistance is threefold: its patriotism, its morality, and its spiritual life. If we can undermine these three areas, America will collapse from within." - Joseph Stalin

Stalin did not undermine America's patriotism, morality, and "spiritual life." Neither did Mao or Fidel or the Supreme Court. The American people did it: and they did it knowingly and intentionally, by the choices they made, although I admit it was a gradual process.

There is no nation on the face of this earth which has rejected and insulted and despised God as much as the United States of America. And I'm not talking about the Obamas or the Kennedys or the Pelosis: I'm talking about the American people themselves.

(08-16-2010 05:14 AM)William Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-16-2010 01:05 AM)Rick Schworer Wrote: [ -> ]I just finished watching this, it was amazing. To sum up what the documentary historically demonstrates, it starts out with this quote:

"America is like a healthy body and its resistance is threefold: its patriotism, its morality, and its spiritual life. If we can undermine these three areas, America will collapse from within." - Joseph Stalin

Stalin did not undermine America's patriotism, morality, and "spiritual life." Neither did Mao or Fidel or the Supreme Court. The American people did it: and they did it knowingly and intentionally, by the choices they made, although I admit it was a gradual process.

There is no nation on the face of this earth which has rejected and insulted and despised God as much as the United States of America. And I'm not talking about the Obamas or the Kennedys or the Pelosis: I'm talking about the American people themselves.

I admit William you are wiser than me in many areas, and I like you far to much to want to pick a fight with you. I think you have an imbalanced view of America and it doesn't surprise me that you'd say this.

You are ignoring the millions that have been murdered in other countries for preaching the gospel, countries that at one time were open to it. I think if you were to ask any of those people if the American people have rejected, insulted, and despised God more than any other nation they would disagree with you.

I lived on the mission field for two years in Papua New Guinea. We ran a hotel for missionaries, so I met several. For every one missionary I met from a country other than America I met easily, and probably an understatement, at least twenty-five from America. New Guineans love America because of its missionaries.

I've been to China, and been in one of their "underground" churches. They too love America for the scores of missionaries they send all over the world.

If the PEOPLE of America really have rejected, insulted, and despised God more than any other nation, why is it that every week I can knock on doors and witness to people and they'll smile and take a tract, maybe hear me out, and sometimes someone gets saved. It certainly isn't me.

Based on what you're claiming here, I should be able to get a warmer response in every other nation of the world. Also, based on what you're saying every other nation in the world should be sending out missionaries more than America.

If you want to insist that America is not a "Christian" nation, or that we should focus on Biblical Christianity more than patriotism or politics, you'll get little to no argument from me. If you want to say America today is nothing like the America of 100 years ago, I agree. If you want to say America has its fair share of wickedness and deserves God's judgment, you are right. But America is not the worst nation in the world, and the American people are still open to the gospel. Not to mention there are thousands of good Christians in America that still do what they can for the rest of the world in gospel efforts.

Last time I checked it wasn't Americans that crucified Jesus, it wasn't Americans that after being open to the gospel became completely closed to it, and it wasn't Americans that murdered more Christians in the 20th century than any other century. It was Americans that chose the God of the Bible when this country was founded, and it is Americans that still today send gospel preaching missionaries to nearly every country in the world.

(08-16-2010 10:15 AM)Rick Schworer Wrote: [ -> ]I admit William you are wiser than me in many areas, and I like you far to much to want to pick a fight with you. I think you have an imbalanced view of America and it doesn't surprise me that you'd say this.

You are ignoring the millions that have been murdered in other countries for preaching the gospel, countries that at one time were open to it. I think if you were to ask any of those people if the American people have rejected, insulted, and despised God more than any other nation they would disagree with you.

I lived on the mission field for two years in Papua New Guinea. We ran a hotel for missionaries, so I met several. For every one missionary I met from a country other than America I met easily, and probably an understatement, at least twenty-five from America. New Guineans love America because of its missionaries.

I've been to China, and been in one of their "underground" churches. They too love America for the scores of missionaries they send all over the world.

If the PEOPLE of America really have rejected, insulted, and despised God more than any other nation, why is it that every week I can knock on doors and witness to people and they'll smile and take a tract, maybe hear me out, and sometimes someone gets saved. It certainly isn't me.

Based on what you're claiming here, I should be able to get a warmer response in every other nation of the world. Also, based on what you're saying every other nation in the world should be sending out missionaries more than America.

If you want to insist that America is not a "Christian" nation, or that we should focus on Biblical Christianity more than patriotism or politics, you'll get little to no argument from me. If you want to say America today is nothing like the America of 100 years ago, I agree. If you want to say America has its fair share of wickedness and deserves God's judgment, you are right. But America is not the worst nation in the world, and the American people are still open to the gospel. Not to mention there are thousands of good Christians in America that still do what they can for the rest of the world in gospel efforts.

Last time I checked it wasn't Americans that crucified Jesus, it wasn't Americans that after being open to the gospel became completely closed to it, and it wasn't Americans that murdered more Christians in the 20th century than any other century. It was Americans that chose the God of the Bible when this country was founded, and it is Americans that still today send gospel preaching missionaries to nearly every country in the world.

Dear brother, I'm not ignoring the other countries of the world. I am more intimately familiar with the crimes against Christians that occurred in the Gulag, or that are happening throughout the world today, than I would like to be. I have a tremendous burden for the persecuted church throughout the world, and have ever since I was a new Christian. I am also aware that America has inherited, from England, the mantle of being the greatest supporter of missions on earth. In fact, I believe that our support of missions, along with our support of Israel, are the only things that have stayed God's hand from utterly destroying this nation.

But rather than have a lengthy exchange, let me encapsulate the difference (as I see it) between your perspective and mine.

You're looking at America as the most free country in the world, which it is, despite being a police state. (I'm not being sarcastic; I think we are a police state, but just not yet on the level of the Soviet Union.) You're looking at our opportunities and our blessings, and thank God for them. You're looking at America today. That's one way of looking at it.

I'm looking at it from the perspective of how far we've fallen. Of course America has never been an atheist state or a Marxist or Muslim dictatorship. But, at one point, we did operate on the basis of a Judeo-Christian consensus; we acknowledged right and wrong, up and down, God and no-God. In the past sixty years, we have violently turned against that way of thinking.

I think that's a fairly objective way of looking at our differences, as evidenced in this forum: but, of course, both your thinking and mine are more nuanced than that, and we undoubtedly agree on far more than these posts might suggest.

(08-16-2010 01:23 PM)William Wrote: [ -> ]Dear brother, I'm not ignoring the other countries of the world. I am more intimately familiar with the crimes against Christians that occurred in the Gulag, or that are happening throughout the world today, than I would like to be. I have a tremendous burden for the persecuted church throughout the world, and have ever since I was a new Christian. I am also aware that America has inherited, from England, the mantle of being the greatest supporter of missions on earth. In fact, I believe that our support of missions, along with our support of Israel, are the only things that have stayed God's hand from utterly destroying this nation.

But rather than have a lengthy exchange, let me encapsulate the difference (as I see it) between your perspective and mine.

You're looking at America as the most free country in the world, which it is, despite being a police state. (I'm not being sarcastic; I think we are a police state, but just not yet on the level of the Soviet Union.) You're looking at our opportunities and our blessings, and thank God for them. You're looking at America today. That's one way of looking at it.

I'm looking at it from the perspective of how far we've fallen. Of course America has never been an atheist state or a Marxist or Muslim dictatorship. But, at one point, we did operate on the basis of a Judeo-Christian consensus; we acknowledged right and wrong, up and down, God and no-God. In the past sixty years, we have violently turned against that way of thinking.

I think that's a fairly objective way of looking at our differences, as evidenced in this forum: but, of course, both your thinking and mine are more nuanced than that, and we undoubtedly agree on far more than these posts might suggest.

I agree, even about the part about us being a police state. Our fourth amendment rights are trampled on much more than people realize.

The part where I think we disagree is that I think there are nations that have rejected God much more harshly than America has. In fact, I don't think America has rejected God as a nation yet, only partially. China was a free nation, and if I remember correctly Chiang Kai-shek was a Christian man. Israel of course is another example. What was Russia like before it fell to communism? I honestly don't remember. England has fallen farther than America has (I have a lot of respect for England, don't get me wrong), thought they have certainly had more time to do it.

In the end, it doesn't matter. America needs a revival in a bad way.

What I appreciated about this DVD was it charted out the stated goals of Communism back in the thirties in their own books, and most of them had to do with destroying America from the inside by destroying the family unit. Things like get mom working out the house (no, it's not a sin but it's not the best thing either), make divorce easy and accepted, promote promiscuity, make homosexuality acceptable, dumb down the education system, make the state "God", etc.

All these things and more have happened, as you put it, over the last sixty years. This DVD shows how the Communists blatantly and openly planned much of this and how they have used "useful idiots" and known communists (though they have changed that title to things such as progressive, etc) in the education and entertainment industries to accomplish their ends.

In the end there is a hopeful admonition, and that is to strengthen the family unit, stand against sin, get your kids out of public school, and spread the gospel.

I didn't mean to write a review, oh well!

Very interesting, the reading list referenced is also interesting, although I would add a few books to that list.

I do agree with much that was said, to a point. However, I believe that the scope and magnitude of the problem is too great for all of the people involved to have consciously, and in accord, been in collusion. This battle is spiritual and cannot be fought in the physical. The true enemy is working behind the scenes, orchestrating the players. We cannot take back America physically. If it is to be taken back, it must be done spiritually. Yet I lack any confidence in the spiritual fortitude of America's churches, I don't believe that most churches could pray their way out of a wet paper sack, much less confront the spiritual wickedness that keeps their community in bondage.

I'm just saying...

It does look like an interesting movie, maybe netflix will pick it up.

(08-11-2010 02:58 PM)Rick Schworer Wrote: [ -> ]Hey guys, this is a video documentary that a man in my church has been working on for a few years. I can't see the video because of my system, but I've seen enough of the movie itself to know it's excellent.

Please take a moment and check it out.

AGENDA: Grinding America Down

(08-16-2010 05:38 PM)Daniel Wrote: [ -> ]Very interesting, the reading list referenced is also interesting, although I would add a few books to that list.

I do agree with much that was said, to a point. However, I believe that the scope and magnitude of the problem is to great for all of the people involved to have consciously, and in accord, been in collusion. This battle is spiritual and cannot be fought in the physical. The true enemy is working behind the scenes, orchestrating the players. We cannot take back America physically. If it is to be taken back, it must be done spiritually. Yet I lack any confidence in the spiritual fortitude of America's churches, I don't believe that most churches could pray their way out of a wet paper sack, much less confront the spiritual wickedness that keeps their community in bondage.

I'm just saying...

I wish there was a "like" option on a post. 'Cause I like this one a lot.

I feel the same way about prayer in churches. Our church actually does pray, but I wish that people prayed more in their own personal devotions and prayed with conviction and faith. It is in that that my dismay lies. "i lack any confidence in the spiritual fortitude" of most CHristians in America.