AV Bible Believers Fellowship

I don't think Briders are a cult, obviously; I just think they're snobs at best, and crazy at worst. But I'm using "cult" in a different sense than some of you, as I outlined in my earlier post. I'm talking about the really bad guys.

By that standard, I don't even think that Christian Science is a cult, although it has some of the marks. If it seems that I'm more strict in my definition than even Walter Martin, it's because I've dealt with these people, early in my Christian life (the 70s, which were the heyday of the crazy cults in America). With my pastor, I helped rescue a kid from a Children of God "colony" (the pastor later wrote a book about the group), and the Moonies threatened to sue me for libel when I exposed their local chapter in the newspapers. My efforts were nothing but an unprofitable servant doing what God enabled him to do. But it left me with a pretty definite idea of what real cults are.

The exceptions to my "strict" definition are the Mormons and the Jehovah's Witnesses. Their members don't practice prostitution or commit mass suicide; usually, they're very nice people. But they are damnable, hateful cults.

By the way, I thought of another characteristic which I forgot to list in post #3. In a genuine, hard-core cult, the leader often claims to be Jesus Christ Himself, or perhaps John the Baptist, and/or claims to be God's only representative on earth: Jim Jones, Joseph Smith, the Pope, "Moses David" Berg, and of course Sun Myung Moon, who modestly referred to himself as "The Lord of the Second Advent."

I don't like describing Calvinists or Catholics or Briders as cults, because it devalues the word. The Catholics come closest to my strict definition, but they're the largest "Christian" group in the world, and not even the Pope can control the members the way Jim Jones or "Moses David" Berg controlled their people. But in its theology and hierarchy, it's worse than a cult: it's the most evil institution in human history. But the Catholics we know personally, the pew-sitters? They're victims, and they're not crazy.

There has to be a word for a group that clings to sub-Christian teachings (such as the Seventh-Day Adventists), but who don't destroy families and drive people to suicide. But I can't think of one.

(08-06-2010 02:36 PM)William Wrote: [ -> ]If it seems that I'm more strict in my definition than even Walter Martin, it's because I've dealt with these people, early in my Christian life (the 70s, which were the heyday of the crazy cults in America).

Have you done any reading about the CIA's involvement in those crazy 70s cults? Very interesting...

(08-06-2010 02:36 PM)William Wrote: [ -> ]There has to be a word for a group that clings to sub-Christian teachings (such as the Seventh-Day Adventists), but who don't destroy families and drive people to suicide. But I can't think of one.

Heretics?

Titus 3:10, "A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;"

I think that's a good word to use. It also neatly ties to questions together because it provides an answer to HAI's question, "what is heresy."

(08-06-2010 04:10 PM)Rick Schworer Wrote: [ -> ]Heretics?

Titus 3:10, "A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;"

There's another thread on the nature of heresy, to which I have not yet addressed myself; but, for reasons I will mention there, I wouldn't choose this as a synonym for "cult." All cults are heretical, but not all heretics are involved in cults.

(08-06-2010 03:14 PM)Lynne Wrote: [ -> ]Have you done any reading about the CIA's involvement in those crazy 70s cults? Very interesting...

Lynne! What am I, a newbie to this stuff?

The feds were involved, to some extent, in the activities of several of these groups. Jim Jones' work in San Francisco was endorsed by no less a personage than Mrs. Jimmy Carter: in this picture, the former First Lady is shown visiting the People's Temple:


When his zeal for power outstripped anything he could accomplish within American law, Jones originally planned to relocate his flock to Russia. The Soviets had sense enough to brush him off, which is how he ended up in Guyana. But to think that he negotiated with the Soviets, and then moved 1,000 people to Guyana, without the knowledge of the CIA, is naive in the extreme. When Congressman Leo Ryan went to investigate the cult on its home turf, he was assassinated. These things were not done in a corner, and I assume the CIA and the FBI had agents in place.

Sun Myung Moon came to prominence in America as an outspoken defender of President Nixon during Watergate; he held huge "God and Country rallies" that would dwarf anything the "Moral Majority" ever put together. He later founded, and currently owns, the Washington Times, the "conservative" alternative to the Post. Ownership of a major newspaper gave him the credibility he wanted. Again, I imagine that the feds had their peeps on the ground, probably within his "ministry."

The Children of God, which abandoned America for Europe in the 80s, is a less obvious case, but there are reams of material on it. The only reason I don't make a thread about them is because they're not active on U.S. soil; if we had more of a European membership, I would. Theirs is not the bloodiest story of all, but it is the most sordid. Warning: the Wikipedia entry on COG (or "The Family") is written by COG sympathizers, and is unreliable. If anyone wants it, the reliable stuff is available, and I can provide the links. But it's so sordid that I'd prefer to do it in PMs.

Guru Maharaj Ji and the other eastern "saviours" enjoyed a brief vogue, but were basically small-timers.

No, they're not. But, in fairness, it drives me crazy to hear Dr. Ruckman talk about "the Alexandrian Cult." I know what he means, but I wish he'd stick to calling it The Scholars' Union or something. Whatever those weasels and ne'er-do-wells are, they're not a cult, at least by my definition.
William wrote above: I'm not so sure I don't agree with Ruckman on this. Did they not birth the catholics, Ayrans Catholics as in A. Hitler. Are they not where the other modernist bibles come from.

They teach false doctrine and part of mystery Babylon or so I think. Is this not where the NIV comes from? Romish gnosticism.