AV Bible Believers Fellowship

I have been reading this chapter over and over again. I don't know why. My Bible is open to this chapter on my desk, because I wanted to read it to let some positional truths shine in. But I noticed something this morning.

I was struggling to come to terms with what appeared to be teaching unconditional election (you being dead in sins and tresspasses.. hath he quickened etc - btw, if you believe in calvinism, I don't care. It is Lordship Salvation that is the bigger error, and Calvinists, Arminians, Dispensationalists have all been guilty of that error).

But reading the chapter, God showed me something that can only be found in the King James due to it's ye, you, thee thou etc.

Eph 2:1 ¶ And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Who are the you? I always thought he was talking about individuals, quickened to salvation.


Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

But here is what the passage is talking about.

In times past ye [GENTILES] walked according to the course of this world..

Among whom also we [JEWS] had our conversation in times past.. children of wrath, even as others [GENTILES]

Eph 2:4 ¶ But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us [BOT JEW AND GENTILE],


Eph 2:5 Even when we [BOTH JEW AND GENTILES] were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

God has granted the Jews and Gentiles repentance unto life -

Ac 5:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Ac 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Eph 2:6 And hath raised us [BOTH JEW AND GENTILE BELIEVERS] up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Eph 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye [GENTILES] saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Eph 2:10 For we [JEWS] are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Eph 2:11 ¶ Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye [GENTILES] were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 BUT NOW in Christ Jesus ye [GENTILES] who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 ¶ For he is our [BOTH JEW AND GENTILE] peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us [NO DIFFERENCE NOW BETWEEN JEW AND GENTILE];
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace [THE LAWS THAT THE JEWS WERE ORDAINED TO WALK IN HAVE BEEN ABOLISHED - NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JEW AND GENTILE];
Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both [JEW AND GENTILE] unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Eph 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off [GENTILE], and to them that were nigh [JEW].
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye [GENTILES] are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

So the entire passage is demonstrating that Gentiles and Jews are saved in this age by grace through faith, that there is no difference - anyone can be saved because God has granted both Israel and the Gentiles repentance unto life and anyone that believes will be seated with Him in heavenly places.

God bless

Very good exposition, brother! You've got it exactly right. Thank you!


And it's interesting that your study was prompted by simply examining the pronouns (you, we) and asking, "Who's the author referring to?" That's a great principle of Bible study: always ask three questions:

1. Who's speaking?

2. To whom is he/ are they speaking?

3. In what context is it being said?

Those simple little questions can avoid a lot of stupid and unnecessary problems.

As for the Calvinism stuff, I'm glad to see that you're not hung up on it. The passage does include election: well, so what? Election is part of God's methods, and although we'll never understand it, we needn't be frightened of it. The hyper-Calvinists take it to extremes with "unconditional election;" but Calvinists don't "own" predestination and election, any more than the Catholics "own" the Virgin Birth. We should never be afraid of a passage simply because it's been misused by others.

(10-22-2009 04:48 PM)William Wrote: [ -> ]Very good exposition, brother! You've got it exactly right. Thank you!

And it's interesting that your study was prompted by simply examining the pronouns (you, we) and asking, "Who's the author referring to?" That's a great principle of Bible study: always ask three questions:

1. Who's speaking?

2. To whom is he/ are they speaking?

3. In what context is it being said?

Those simple little questions can avoid a lot of stupid and unnecessary problems.

As for the Calvinism stuff, I'm glad to see that you're not hung up on it. The passage does include election: well, so what? Election is part of God's methods, and although we'll never understand it, we needn't be frightened of it. The hyper-Calvinists take it to extremes with "unconditional election;" but Calvinists don't "own" predestination and election, any more than the Catholics "own" the Virgin Birth. We should never be afraid of a passage simply because it's been misused by others.

William - you never fail to amaze me with your wisdom and understanding of God's Word. You can explain right division of passages in such a simple way that makes it easy to understand - even for those who are not so familiar with it.

God has truly blessed you with discernment and wisdom.
God bless.

(10-22-2009 05:22 PM)graceforme Wrote: [ -> ]William - you never fail to amaze me with your wisdom and understanding of God's Word. You can explain right division of passages in such a simple way that makes it easy to understand - even for those who are not so familiar with it.

God has truly blessed you with discernment and wisdom.

Thank you, sister, but I don't have enough sense to come in out of the rain! However, God has blessed me with some excellent mentors and teachers; I was only repeating what they told me.

But Luke's study was the thing! I love to watch God show people things directly!

(10-22-2009 05:34 PM)William Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-22-2009 05:22 PM)graceforme Wrote: [ -> ]William - you never fail to amaze me with your wisdom and understanding of God's Word. You can explain right division of passages in such a simple way that makes it easy to understand - even for those who are not so familiar with it.

God has truly blessed you with discernment and wisdom.

Thank you, sister, but I don't have enough sense to come in out of the rain! However, God has blessed me with some excellent mentors and teachers; I was only repeating what they told me.

But Luke's study was the thing! I love to watch God show people things directly!

My problem is that I know what I believe and want to say, but can't find the references in Scripture to show my point. But sometimes the search leads to a whole other study, and finding information that I had missed previously.

God Bless.

(10-22-2009 07:28 PM)graceforme Wrote: [ -> ]My problem is that I know what I believe and want to say, but can't find the references in Scripture to show my point. But sometimes the search leads to a whole other study, and finding information that I had missed previously.

God Bless.

Yes, but those "rabbit trails" can be very edifying! As for myself, you'd be horrified to know how many verses I know, but can't locate without a concordance. One thing that has helped me over the years, however, is to try to remember important chapters, rather than the chapter and verse: like the adulterous woman is in John 8, but I couldn't tell you the verses without looking. But if you know the chapter, you can find the verse. I know the Lord's Supper is in 1 Cor. 11, but couldn't tell you the verses!

(10-22-2009 09:35 PM)William Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-22-2009 07:28 PM)graceforme Wrote: [ -> ]My problem is that I know what I believe and want to say, but can't find the references in Scripture to show my point. But sometimes the search leads to a whole other study, and finding information that I had missed previously.

God Bless.

Yes, but those "rabbit trails" can be very edifying! As for myself, you'd be horrified to know how many verses I know, but can't locate without a concordance. One thing that has helped me over the years, however, is to try to remember important chapters, rather than the chapter and verse: like the adulterous woman is in John 8, but I couldn't tell you the verses without looking. But if you know the chapter, you can find the verse. I know the Lord's Supper is in 1 Cor. 11, but couldn't tell you the verses!

Thanks for that tip. I can see where that would work. Many times I can remember the book it's in, but not the chapter. But I'll work on focusing on chapter too.

God bless.

Luke, that was really, really good! I love how the Lord just showed that to you.

And through you, I can see it, wow. Good catch! Thanks!

It's fun to see others being taught by the Holy Spirit!

Every time I read through my Bible I get new insights, and wind up writing more notes and underlining passages.



I need wider margins in my Bible.... :woowoo10:

(10-22-2009 04:48 PM)William Wrote: [ -> ]Very good exposition, brother! You've got it exactly right. Thank you!

And it's interesting that your study was prompted by simply examining the pronouns (you, we) and asking, "Who's the author referring to?" That's a great principle of Bible study: always ask three questions:

1. Who's speaking?

2. To whom is he/ are they speaking?

3. In what context is it being said?

Those simple little questions can avoid a lot of stupid and unnecessary problems.

Good advice, William. Modern versions often change ye, you, etc., and there are times when this can change the context of the passage to mean that a group is being addressed or just the opposite, that one person is being addressed rather than the group intended. This is one of the reasons I don't use modern versions.

I think I'll go back and study Ephesians again myself.

God Bless.