(06-16-2010 01:51 PM)Andrew Wrote: [ -> ]I am going to take your claims and research them except for the ones about the atrocities of the catholic church . History reveals that protestants tortured and killed catholics as well ..but that is all i am going to say about that .
Yes, the Protestants killed their hundreds, and the Catholics their millions.
There is no comparison, and the Catholic Church does not deserve to be cut any slack on it at all.
(06-16-2010 02:33 PM)Rick Schworer Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, the Protestants killed their hundreds, and the Catholics their millions.
There is no comparison, and the Catholic Church does not deserve to be cut any slack on it at all.
Amen and amen. The Roman Catholic Church is the most evil institution in the history of the human race. Stalin and Mao were pikers and cheapskates compared to the Catholic Church. I'd add Hitler to the list, but he was working hand-in-hand with the Catholic Church, and was himself a lifelong Catholic, never excommunicated, but opposed and plotted against by Protestants like Bonhoeffer and Ellul.
For every person persecuted by Calvin and the Puritans, a village has been razed by the Catholic Church.
But this is off-topic, and deserves its own thread, if anyone has the stomach for it. With all due respects to Andrew, no honest student of church history has any business equating the excesses of Catholicism with the excesses of Protestantism. It's like the liberals who equate Muslim "fundamentalism" with Christian "fundamentalism." It is historical nonsense, and intellectually dishonest.
By the way, I'm not a Protestant. Many of us here are Baptists. Baptists have made their mistakes, but they've burned precious few people at the stake.
(06-16-2010 02:33 PM)Rick Schworer Wrote: [ -> ] (06-16-2010 01:51 PM)Andrew Wrote: [ -> ]I am going to take your claims and research them except for the ones about the atrocities of the catholic church . History reveals that protestants tortured and killed catholics as well ..but that is all i am going to say about that .
Yes, the Protestants killed their hundreds, and the Catholics their millions.
There is no comparison, and the Catholic Church does not deserve to be cut any slack on it at all.
For me, a tally or body count of Catholic v. Protestant is completely irrelevant to the translation issue. And it's never ending. Two thirds of the Catholics in Japan were killed in the atomic bombing of Nagasaki, the historical Catholic stronghold founded by the Portuguese. I
think the choice of atomic bomb targets was not random. When I'm the last person on earth, I'll read our government's secret documents and know for sure. (Reference to another thread, lest you think I'm crazy.)
(06-16-2010 03:46 PM)William Wrote: [ -> ]It's like the liberals who equate Muslim "fundamentalism" with Christian "fundamentalism." It is historical nonsense, and intellectually dishonest.
I think Saladin might disagree with you.
(06-16-2010 04:12 PM)Lynne Wrote: [ -> ]Two thirds of the Catholics in Japan were killed in the atomic bombing of Nagasaki, the historical Catholic stronghold founded by the Portuguese. I think the choice of atomic bomb targets was not random.
If that's true (and I have heard it before, and think it's laughable), we made up for it a few years later by killing 50,000 Americans and countless Vietnamese in an attempt to install a Roman Catholic government over a Buddhist people.
If you like your conspiracies, dear sister, please look at the religious composition of the United States Supreme Court, and tell me who's in the driver's seat in this country. The Jehovah's Witnesses?
(06-16-2010 04:21 PM)William Wrote: [ -> ] (06-16-2010 04:12 PM)Lynne Wrote: [ -> ]Two thirds of the Catholics in Japan were killed in the atomic bombing of Nagasaki, the historical Catholic stronghold founded by the Portuguese. I think the choice of atomic bomb targets was not random.
If that's true (and I have heard it before, and think it's laughable),
Do you think it's laughable because they said the decision to bomb Nagasaki was based on the weather? If true, Nagasaki was still on the short list for reasons that don't make sense to me.
(06-16-2010 04:21 PM)William Wrote: [ -> ]If you like your conspiracies, dear sister, please look at the religious composition of the United States Supreme Court, and tell me who's in the driver's seat in this country. The Jehovah's Witnesses?
Six out of nine on the SCOTUS are Roman Catholic.
I'm used to reading how out of proportion to the US population the Supremes of Jewish faith are.
I thought this was interesting:
![[Image: court2.png]](http://www.stat.columbia.edu/~cook/movabletype/mlm/court2.png)
Your question reminded me of the fact that during the Cold War era, most of my father-in-law's colleagues in the CIA were Catholic or Mormon. We have a working hypothesis that this was because these two groups were vehemently ant-Communist and therefore fertile ground from which to recruit. I decided to google to see if I could find support and found:
Quote:For most religious leaders in the 1940s, there was no hesitation about linking arms in a common front against the Communists ... Mormons and Catholics, two groups who had traditionally distanced themselves from the American government and its foreign policies, adopted "hyper-American" conservative foreign policy views. Protestants held greater diversity of opinion than other religious groups.
http://www.colorado.edu/ReligiousStudies...munism.pdf
(06-17-2010 12:13 AM)Lynne Wrote: [ -> ]Do you think it's laughable because they said the decision to bomb Nagasaki was based on the weather? If true, Nagasaki was still on the short list for reasons that don't make sense to me.
As the son of a pilot, I'm sure the weather is a factor in planning any bombing run. But I have
always believed that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were bombed, instead of Berlin, because of plain old racism. I don't think religion had anything to do with it.
Quote:Your question reminded me of the fact that during the Cold War era, most of my father-in-law's colleagues in the CIA were Catholic or Mormon. We have a working hypothesis that this was because these two groups were vehemently ant-Communist and therefore fertile ground from which to recruit. I decided to google to see if I could find support and found:
Quote:For most religious leaders in the 1940s, there was no hesitation about linking arms in a common front against the Communists ... Mormons and Catholics, two groups who had traditionally distanced themselves from the American government and its foreign policies, adopted "hyper-American" conservative foreign policy views. Protestants held greater diversity of opinion than other religious groups.
I think that makes all the sense in the world. Roman Catholics in America, as well as Mormons, are traditionally anti-Communist, except for the lunatic fringe left, like the Catholic priests who were so prominent in the "civil rights" and "antiwar" movements. (Berrigan, Groppi ... their names come back to me like childhood friends.) That is, of course, a North American phenomenon: the Roman Catholic political influence in Central and South America was aggressively Marxist, as in "Liberation Theology."
The Mormons are traditionally conservative and anti-Communist. But I don't think that they've achieved a hugely disproportionate influence. Orrin Hatch achieved great power, but the people of Utah elected him. Mitt Romney may be President one day, but it wasn't handed to him on a silver platter, as it was with John F. Kennedy. J. Edgar Hoover was surrounded by Mormons, but I don't think he took his orders from the Council of Elders.
The Roman Catholic Church, over the centuries, has never taken a consistent political stance, although they preferred monarchies in the old days, when the monarch was Catholic. They supported Naziism when Naziism was in control; they supported Communism in Communist countries. They support "democracy" in the United States. As has been said, the Roman Catholic Church is history's greatest chameleon: it always adapts to the environment.
The Bible takes a harsher view: apart from Israel in Old Testament times, the Vatican is history's greatest whore.
(06-16-2010 02:33 PM)Rick Schworer Wrote: [ -> ] (06-16-2010 01:51 PM)Andrew Wrote: [ -> ]I am going to take your claims and research them except for the ones about the atrocities of the catholic church . History reveals that protestants tortured and killed catholics as well ..but that is all i am going to say about that .
Yes, the Protestants killed their hundreds, and the Catholics their millions.
There is no comparison, and the Catholic Church does not deserve to be cut any slack on it at all.
Protestants are those who embraced "Reformed Theology." So it was Reformed what?
Reformed Catholicism! It was Augustine's false doctrine, brushed-off, shined-up, and served hot...burning heretic hot, to the public.
True, it had more light than did the RCC, but it had the same corrupt authority system. They went back, unfortunately, they should have gone all the way back and not just to Augustine.
This is why Reformed Theology is so bad. And look at it's two corrupt daughters:
1. Calvinism - TULIP, eenee, meenee, miney, mo, YOU go to Heaven, but to Hell you go.
2. Arminianism - DAISY, He loves me, he loves me not, he loves me, he...
Those two fighting daughters make everyone think you have to be one or the other, never acknowledging that there is Biblical balance. I put it this way to some men I know:
I am neither A - Arminian, or C - Calvinist, but B - Bible-believer.
