AV Bible Believers Fellowship

I feel alone on an island when it comes to the subject of Dr. Ruckman.

On the one hand, so many people hate him and think he's a heretic and all that. If you dare mention him as a source for an idea (as I did on another forum) you come very close to getting lynched and ran off the forum.

On the flip side, if you dare say he's not perfect, has some kooky ideas, and sometime says things he shouldn't, you get slammed by his very loyal followers.

Is there no middle ground? I've listened to thousands of hours of him on tape and have several of his commentaries. My pastor graduated from his school. Yet I don't believe Dr. Ruckman is perfect, and I think he's unfortunatly shot himself in the foot with hit bombastic statements over the years to those who are KJVO.

At the same time, I think he's the best Bible teacher I've ever heard, maybe second only to Sam Gipp - a graduate of his school. I agree with about 80% of the stuff he teaches, with only one major disagreement.

Anyways, I found myself in an odd situation lately, and I thought I'd express it. On one board, I was pointing out that Dr. Ruckman wasn't as perfect as everyone there was trying to paint him out to be, while at the same time on another board I was defending Dr. Ruckman from a bunch of IFBers who were labeling him as a heretic.

Is there any middle ground???

Sounds like you are middle ground, LOL!

Yup, he is a man that invokes extreme responses, one way or t'other! I'd never heard of him before I started meeting people online who either knew or knew of him.

Once I did some research of my own by listening to him preach, and reading his books, I came out pretty much MOR (middle of the road). He has some good points, a lot of good points, and some strange ideas that have me saying, "how you figure??"

The extremists can be fun to play with on the Ruckman/KJB topic because they're so, well, extreme! :biggrin:

Yes there is a middle ground. I believe it is here on this forum, but you should have already figured that out.

I am a graduate of PBI (1999) and I certainly appreciate the education I received there, and the Lord used Dr. Ruckman and Br. Donovan (and Dr. Vance to a lesser degree) to grow me up in the faith and teach me to be a man; however, they are men, they have passions, they make mistakes. Some I am by no means a Doc-head or a Ruckmanite.

I have set in some churches to hear the pastor refer back to Dr. Ruckman no less than twenty times as if they validate his message, really sad.

Since graduating from PBI I have continued to study and learn and grow. God has used several different men for that purpose

I love Dr. Ruckman. I have learned more Bible from listening to him and reading his books in the last months than I ever did in Bible college or church.

Yes, he does have some interesting ideas. Some I am still going Hmmm about.

Folks either love him or hate him. Most who hate him won't listen.

All ya can do is learn all ya can from him.

I do understand where you are coming from brother Rick.

Gary

(06-02-2010 10:08 AM)Rick Schworer Wrote: [ -> ]I feel alone on an island when it comes to the subject of Dr. Ruckman.

You may be on an island, but you're not alone; lots of people feel exactly the way you do.

Quote:On the one hand, so many people hate him and think he's a heretic and all that. If you dare mention him as a source for an idea (as I did on another forum) you come very close to getting lynched and ran off the forum.

Yes. The haters are so full of hate that they hate anyone who doesn't share their hatred. (How's that for a sentence? Pretty snazzy, huh? Unfortunately, it's true.) We have all experienced what you're talking about. And I'll tell you something: the hatred will outlive Ruckman. If the Lord tarries, the haters will still be cursing his name fifty years after his death.

Quote:On the flip side, if you dare say he's not perfect, has some kooky ideas, and sometime says things he shouldn't, you get slammed by his very loyal followers.

Not everywhere. Certainly not in this forum.

I don't wish to violate 2 Cor. 10:12 by comparing this forum to any other, but let's be honest. We're all adults; it won't hurt. Most of us (and all of us on the Mod team) came from another forum, a forum to which you also belong. If you so much as whisper a question about Ruckman or his teachings there, you will be torn to shreds by the young Administrator or one of his underlings, and possibly banned. (Every Moderator here was once a Moderator at that forum, and we saw people banned for challenging Ruckman.) If you read our Statement of Faith, you will notice that Ruckman's name does not appear. If you read our Rules, it only appears once: we ask that his videos not be posted on this site.

If anyone comes to this forum simply to attack Ruckman, we'll show 'em the door, after reasoning with them if possible. But questioning his teachings is perfectly acceptable. However, discussion of his personal life (or the personal lives of Shelton Smith, Jack Hyles, or Rick Warren) will not be tolerated. We leave the soap-opera stuff for the haters to gloat over.

Quote:Is there no middle ground? I've listened to thousands of hours of him on tape and have several of his commentaries. My pastor graduated from his school. Yet I don't believe Dr. Ruckman is perfect, and I think he's unfortunatly shot himself in the foot with hit bombastic statements over the years to those who are KJVO.

Well, perhaps I'm kidding myself, but I think we've reached that middle ground in this forum. By the way, at least half the members of this forum have never read a single book by Ruckman, or one of his sermons. This is not a Ruckmanite forum, although many of us are Ruckmanites, if you want to put it that way.

Quote:At the same time, I think he's the best Bible teacher I've ever heard, maybe second only to Sam Gipp - a graduate of his school. I agree with about 80% of the stuff he teaches, with only one major disagreement.

Me too, Magoo. None of us agree with everything he does or says. Thank God for that: it would be dangerous. We'd really be in danger of following a man, instead of Jesus and His word.

I can't say that I agree or disagree with his "teachings" on UFOs, because he doesn't teach on the subject: he just presents possibilities. I agree with his teachings on divorce, but not his teaching on abortion (note: this thread will not be derailed into a discussion of either topic). I agree with his teachings on the races, but often wish he'd express them with a bit more subtlety. I don't agree with his teachings on music, although I am not a CCM advocate. Generally, I trust him, for three reasons: he knows the Bible better than any man alive; I know him personally; and he is very rare, in that he is willing to adapt or change his position as he receives new light. That's the mark of a student and a humble man, not a puffed-up "Bible scholar."

As for his marital history, or something he may have said to somebody sometime, I don't give a hoot in Hell (Isaiah 34:11). That's personal stuff, and none of my business.

Quote:Is there any middle ground???

Yes, and don't let anybody shove you off to either extreme. You don't have to be a groupie or a hater.

I would think that most who know of Dr. Ruckman fall into the middle ground, but that's my opinion. I have several of his commentaries and books and recently purchased a copy of his reference Bible, but that doesn't mean I hang onto his every word (or anyone else' for that matter). I've never met him, but from what I hear from those who have they say he's a real gentleman.

(06-02-2010 11:02 AM)William Wrote: [ -> ]If anyone comes to this forum simply to attack Ruckman, we'll show 'em the door, after reasoning with them if possible. But questioning his teachings is perfectly acceptable. However, discussion of his personal life (or the personal lives of Shelton Smith, Jack Hyles, or Rick Warren) will not be tolerated. We leave the soap-opera stuff for the haters to gloat over.

I agree with everything William said. I myself have questioned some of Dr. Ruckman's teachings. I have done it in private. I have asked of people who know him personally or have sat under his teaching.

The reason for this is we have guests come here who can read our forum without being a member. I would not want one of my questions to be used as further ammunition for some hater to use.

Gary

I'm on middle ground with Dr. Ruckmans teaching. There are 3 things I have heard I do not agree with.. But hundreds I have heard him say I do agree with. He's "right on" on salvation and "right on" on the Bible. Those are probably the two most important issues to be right on. When we disagree on what some say are not "Heaven and Hell issues" I can look the other other way and agree to disagree. I don't agree with my own pastor on everything he says. but what I disagree with him on is not sending people to Heaven or Hell. Men are not perfect and wont always be right not saying my view is right either..

I believe that the LORD has a point-man for every era. I believe Dr. Ruckman IS that point man for these last days. He has championed the King James Bible, and put the last bits of "icing on the cake" for correct Bible Doctrine.
He took Larkin and went beyond him, which is quite an amazing feat.

So I stand by Dr. Ruckman unequivacably because if it hadn't been for Dr. Ruckman's submission to the Lord, there wouldn't BE a King James Bible issue today. Hyles didn't "get on board" until the 90's, AFTER he had been influenced by Jack Patterson and then Dr. Grady.
Who else championed the KJB position before Dr. Ruckman? Nobody that i know of, and I have several shelves of books dealing with the subject.

When I don't follow Dr. Ruckman on a point, I give him the benefit of the doubt for 2 reasons:
1. He has read and studied the Bible much more than I have,
2. He has read and studied so much more than I could ever hope to read and study in my lifetime.

There might be a couple of items I don't fully agree with him on, but I won't bash him for his position either, because I can understand his perspective.

I believe God chose him for one reason - Mark 8:38. All of the men God used in the Bible were reviled and hated by the "scholars" and "respectable men" of society (generally speaking. I know there was Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimethea, but these men had to keep quiet or get kicked out of the synagogues!!! see John 19:38.)
I have seen too many men who profess to believe the KJB, but have nothing but contempt for Dr. Ruckman. I have never seen these same men leave the text of the KJB alone - they always end up tampering with it somewhere. This means they are only posturing. They are just saying what is popular, and going along with their friends.

I don't preach about Dr. Ruckman, or refer to him very often, but I do love the man, and I am eternally thankful for his influence on modern Christianity in these last days. I was "converted" to the KJB by a PBI graduate, and then further trained by another one. So I would not be where I am today, or have the family or fruit if it were not for his ministry.

If I have time to check several commentaries and references on a subject, I will. But then when I get Dr. Ruckman's materials out, and go through them, I usually end up thinking, "SHeesh-ka-bob! Why do I always waste so much time on all that other junk? Dr. Ruckman has the answers!"

I understand all of the middle of the roaders here, and I do not disrespect or disparrage any of you, because your appreciation of the man is REAL.

I guess I am the extreme, and it doesn't bother me a bit to be called a Ruckmanite. I have tangled with too many of the fakirs to be anything else (and I am NOT calling anyone here a fakir!) I would rather THEM think me extreme, than think that I am some little patsy that can be manipulated or coerced into being a part of their little kingdom!

(06-02-2010 01:30 PM)Steve Schwenke Wrote: [ -> ]I understand all of the middle of the roaders here, and I do not disrespect or disparrage any of you, because your appreciation of the man is REAL.

I try to appreciate men for the good things they do. I think us Bible believers are too quick to trash people. In my bibliography, I have Tim Lahaye, Peter Ruckman, and Larkin.

Just like Hyles said, "Every man is my teacher."