AV Bible Believers Fellowship

Just so you don't get me wrong on this, I'm not suggesting spanking is the only tool in the box. I'm just honestly asking, does the Bible specifically speak, whether directly or indirectly, of any other form of correcting your child?

I'm not trying to debate, just asking an honest question.

Remember, the question isn't are there other forms of disciple, it's are there any other forms spelled out in the Bible.

Oh, I thought of one. That was really easy.

"Reproof"

Proverbs 29:15, "The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame."

Proverbs 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go:and when he is old,he will not depart from it.

There is nothing more beautiful than a father speaking into his children's lives proverbs 3 and 4 to his children,his precious children.

How are we to treat our children?

As an example, let us consider how the Lord deals with His children:

He is patient, longsuffering and has not dealt with us according to our iniquities.

How did Joseph and Mary handle Jesus?

"And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing.
And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?
And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them.
And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them: but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart."

I'm not against spanking, but it's not the only way of handling a child.

"As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent." (Revelation 3:19)

I'm so thankful that the Lord has not given me what I deserve:

"The LORD is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and plenteous in mercy.
He will not always chide: neither will he keep his anger for ever.
He hath not dealt with us after our sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities.
For as the Heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him.
As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.
Like as a father pitieth his children, so the LORD pitieth them that fear him." (Psalm 103:8-13)

(05-12-2010 09:37 AM)Rick Schworer Wrote: [ -> ]Just so you don't get me wrong on this, I'm not suggesting spanking is the only tool in the box. I'm just honestly asking, does the Bible specifically speak, whether directly or indirectly, of any other form of correcting your child?

I'm not trying to debate, just asking an honest question.

Remember, the question isn't are there other forms of disciple, it's are there any other forms spelled out in the Bible.

You've already received some excellent answers, and provided one yourself: "reproof." But that begins to blur the line a little bit, because I don't see "reproof" as a form of discipline: I see it as a correction, or a warning, given to prevent or explain a situation where discipline will be necessary.

There's more to child-raising than discipline, although I can think of one "Christian" author, whose name will not pass my lips, who seems to think otherwise. Every parent knows this, even unsaved parents; only brutes and tyrants think differently.

An excellent example of the difference between "reproof" and "discipline" is the case of David and Nathan, in 2 Samuel 12. After David's adultery, God sent Nathan to David as His spokesman. Nathan reproved David, showing him the true nature of his sin by his allegory of the stolen lamb, and telling Him of God's displeasure. But God Himself did the disciplining, by taking David and Bathsheba's child (among other things). That was discipline; Nathan's words were reproof.

To answer your specific question, I don't know of any specific forms of child discipline in the Bible, other than spanking, and I think there are at least two reasons for this. The first reason is quite simple: spanking can be done by anyone, at any time, and is a very simple thing. An African tribesman can't "ground" his child, or send the child to his or her room, because they live in a one-room hut. Very poor people can't cut off a kid's allowance, because they can't afford to give an allowance in the first place. (And some folks don't believe in allowances, on principle.) But everybody who has access to some kind of light stick (a "rod") can spank.

(I believe emphatically that spanking should never be done with the bare hand. It's unscriptural, and it makes the child afraid of the parent's touch. The Bible doesn't prescribe a "rod" because it hurts more; it prescribes a rod because it's emotionally and psychologically safer: it keeps the actual pain separate from the parent's body in the kid's mind. The child fears the paddle, or [in my case] the wooden cooking spoon, instead of fearing the parent. God is way ahead of us on this stuff.)

The second reason is that our modern forms of "discipline" simply wouldn't have made sense in Bible times. How can I "ground" my son, when my son is working the harvest with me from sunup to sundown? Can I suspend my daughter's television privileges, or take away her cell phone? The Bible was written for people of all ages, not just the 21st century. But spanking can be done any time.

Having said that, I agree with you that spanking is not the only tool in the box, and with my children, I used it very rarely - - - but I used it. However, we do live in modern times, and as our children become addicted to more and more modern privileges and conveniences, there are plenty of other tools. But, even if it's not mentioned in Ecclesiastes 3, there's a time to spank, and a time to refrain from spanking.

God certainly doesn't spank me every time I sin. Yes, I reap what I sow: but He's been remarkably gracious in overlooking certain things. Of course, He is the perfect Parent.

I think we also need to pay attention to our own example; our testimony before the children. We need to make sure, first of all, that our own relationships with the Lord are right and that we're seeking His guidance in dealing with the children He entrusts to us.

I don't have my own kids, but I kept the following verse in the front of my mind when I was teaching Sunday school:

1Co 11:1 ¶ Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

While I don't have my own kids, I have plenty of sad experience, like most of us, watching kids being raised incorrectly.

It bothers me when I hear Christian parents or teachers emphasize Eph 6:1 to their kids as the 11th Commandment because the verse doesn't just say, "children, obey your parents," and it makes me wonder who they're trying to convince: the kids or themselves?


Eph 6:1 ¶ Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.
Eph 6:2 Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise; )
Eph 6:3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.
Eph 6:4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

It says "obey your parents in the Lord," which tells me that a parent should understand he/she has no business expecting blind obedience from a child if the parent is teaching the kid, or expecting the kid to do something in direct contravention of God's expectations.

Unquestionably, it is up to the parents to teach their kids to obey, but I see conditions given in those verses:

1) To the kids: It is right to obey your parents in the Lord and God will reward you for it with the promise of a long life (Ex 20:12).

2) Fathers (as the God-appointed leader of the home), you're expected to raise your kids right, and make sure they're raised right, in the nurture and admonition of the Lord and don't raise them so that they're perpetually angry with the way you're treating them (this next part is based on observation) because that's when you could drive them into disrespect and rebellion and push them away from the Lord. Or conversely, they could grow up to fear you and they'll still get the wrong impressions of what God's like.

To me, that's the foundation on which principles of godly child-discipline are built and if the foundation isn't solid, neither will be the structure that's built on it.

Laura, you said something that I intended to say, but forgot! In the matter of child-raising, the Bible tells us plenty of things that aren't specifically related to discipline, but which can prevent the need for discipline. I was specifically thinking about Ephesians 6:4.

Great minds really do think alike!

(05-13-2010 09:23 AM)Laura Wrote: [ -> ]I think we also need to pay attention to our own example; our testimony before the children. We need to make sure, first of all, that our own relationships with the Lord are right and that we're seeking His guidance in dealing with the children He entrusts to us.

I don't have my own kids, but I kept the following verse in the front of my mind when I was teaching Sunday school:

1Co 11:1 ¶ Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

While I don't have my own kids, I have plenty of sad experience, like most of us, watching kids being raised incorrectly.

It bothers me when I hear Christian parents or teachers emphasize Eph 6:1 to their kids as the 11th Commandment because the verse doesn't just say, "children, obey your parents," and it makes me wonder who they're trying to convince: the kids or themselves?


Eph 6:1 ¶ Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.
Eph 6:2 Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise; )
Eph 6:3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.
Eph 6:4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

It says "obey your parents in the Lord," which tells me that a parent should understand he/she has no business expecting blind obedience from a child if the parent is teaching the kid, or expecting the kid to do something in direct contravention of God's expectations.

Unquestionably, it is up to the parents to teach their kids to obey, but I see conditions given in those verses:

1) To the kids: It is right to obey your parents in the Lord and God will reward you for it with the promise of a long life (Ex 20:12).

2) Fathers (as the God-appointed leader of the home), you're expected to raise your kids right, and make sure they're raised right, in the nurture and admonition of the Lord and don't raise them so that they're perpetually angry with the way you're treating them (this next part is based on observation) because that's when you could drive them into disrespect and rebellion and push them away from the Lord. Or conversely, they could grow up to fear you and they'll still get the wrong impressions of what God's like.

To me, that's the foundation on which principles of godly child-discipline are built and if the foundation isn't solid, neither will be the structure that's built on it.

Wonderful post.

I raised four children who managed to survive me and Dad,we were not christians.I was 43 when I got saved my husband was 50..somehow we bluffed our way to raising children who are proud of US! they actually thanked us for how we raised them.
Our grandchildren love us because we love them.I use the same methods on them as my own children,distraction,not too many words mor telling them "I love you very much and at the moment I do not like what you just did to your sister.I want you to say sorry even if you don't mean it and shake hands together.She needs to hear you say "sorry" right now.After you shake hands we'll wipe away the tears and we'll all make a fresh start."

I never ever have smacked my grandchildren I face all the same issues as their parents but I prefer not to smack.My own children one I gave a smack on his leg once when he was nearly ten but I didn't think I ever had,he told me I did about two years ago,he is 24,another one is 26 and never ever had a smack,the next one when he was about ten and eleven he got a few smacks because he was behaving dangerously in traffic and once from his Dad when he was about thirteen and he was being a real jerk to his father who lost it with him.Our daughter got a few smacks when she was delibretly being a sneek and lying as to her whereabouts with her dodgy friends.(The teacher's advised me to get rid of her friends but I thought that was unwise as she would just become resentful and more sneeky.So I waited patiently and just casually chatted to her about true friendships and such and what makes someone a friend.She ditched them on her own.)

Parents need nerves of steel and I raised mine without the awesome privelege of having God as my Father to turn to for help and guidance.
I still need Him daily for wisdom and direction in dealing with all my married children and my grandchildren,what a blessing to have Jesuus.

All these have been excellent posts. I have rarely spanked my kids, well a swat on the butt quickly to get their attention, but few take them aside and spank them. If I did I used my flat hand on their most well padded part. One reason I rarely spanked, is because I am a fairly big guy and was afraid of hurting them physically. Physical discipline is not intended to cause pain only to get their attention.

Usually it was going someplace quiet and discussing it. Getting them to realize and admit what they did was wrong. I rarely yelled at them. My kids to this day will tell you it is more scary when I start to talk low and slow, than when I do yell. And I rarely had to use the dog kennel in the backyard for their quiet time.

My kids are not and were not angels. But God blessed us with three pretty amazing children.

Gary

(05-13-2010 06:59 PM)Gary Wrote: [ -> ]Physical discipline is not intended to cause pain only to get their attention.

I don't believe in child abuse, and you'll find my kids some of the happiest around. I understand where you're coming from Gary, but getting their attention isn't good enough at the early ages.

If a spanking doesn't hurt, a kid isn't going to take it seriously. People are born with wicked hearts, children notwithstanding. They will manipulate, lie, disrespect, and push everything to the limit in order to test the boundaries.

A spanking that doesn't provide some discomfort is going to lead towards disrespect of the parents and the rules.

I'm not a tyrant, pounding his chest and saying, "I'm ganna show them who's boss!" What I am is a second generation Christian, who grew up in a good home where discipline hurt, was something to be feared, and was not overdone. I loved my parents and respected them because of that.