AV Bible Believers Fellowship

(12-03-2009 11:41 AM)iSAVEDbyGRACEi Wrote: [ -> ]This is indeed a thread most worthy of discussion, for it involves the Jews and unbelievers who will remain in this world. I also have mine own opinion on this matter but first we must pray and search the scriptures so that we could see more clearly. Thank you brother for you indeed tickle our minds.

Thank you, hermano. I believe that these things are true, but my purpose in these posts is not to convince anyone. It's to drive people deeper into the scriptures, to "see whether these things are so."

I might be wrong. The scriptures never are.

Thank you brother. I believe that in order for us to understand Salvation Now and Then, is this passage of Scripture from my favorite book.

Re:6:9: And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Re:6:10: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Re:6:11: And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

And thus let us seek HIS wisdom and pray.......

(12-04-2009 11:09 AM)iSAVEDbyGRACEi Wrote: [ -> ]Thank you brother. I believe that in order for us to understand Salvation Now and Then, is this passage of Scripture from my favorite book.

Re:6:9: And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Re:6:10: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Re:6:11: And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

And thus let us seek HIS wisdom and pray.......

(12-03-2009 02:26 PM)William Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-03-2009 11:41 AM)iSAVEDbyGRACEi Wrote: [ -> ]This is indeed a thread most worthy of discussion, for it involves the Jews and unbelievers who will remain in this world. I also have mine own opinion on this matter but first we must pray and search the scriptures so that we could see more clearly. Thank you brother for you indeed tickle our minds.

Thank you, hermano. I believe that these things are true, but my purpose in these posts is not to convince anyone. It's to drive people deeper into the scriptures, to "see whether these things are so."

I might be wrong. The scriptures never are.

Greetings in the name of our great God and saviour Jesus Christ I have a ? I was thinking I remember Paul declaring salvation is sent unto the gentiles Acts 28:28 teaching the mystery Romans 11:25 He said behold i show (reveal) unto you the Mystery and then I read in Revelation 10:7 But in the days of the voice (a shout?) of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, (not sounded yet) Rev.8:6 the mystery of God should be finished, Romans 11:25 fullness of the gentiles has come in as he hath declared to his servants the prophets. Then in 1 corinthians 15:51 we will be changed in a moment a twinkling is this the same mystery and is it finished and the salvation of the 12 tribes that are scattered has begun and the circumcision apostles Gal. 2:9 epistles are in full force and correct doctrinally, to be followed by having faith and works, and your thoughts on the seventh angel, I see Christ just considering. Hope you understand my ? I may not use the same terminologies as a baptist. Basically is the mystery that is finished in Revelation, Pauls declared mystery he taught. And that mystery end Gods dispensation to the Gentiles. And Israel grafted back in through the teachings of those that were sent to the lost sheep of Israel. An Inquiring Anglican, Glory be unto thee O Christ.

(07-04-2011 08:22 AM)Anglican dispensationalist Wrote: [ -> ]Greetings in the name of our great God and saviour Jesus Christ I have a ? I was thinking I remember Paul declaring salvation is sent unto the gentiles Acts 28:28 teaching the mystery Romans 11:25 He said behold i show (reveal) unto you the Mystery and then I read in Revelation 10:7 But in the days of the voice (a shout?) of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, (not sounded yet) Rev.8:6 the mystery of God should be finished, Romans 11:25 fullness of the gentiles has come in as he hath declared to his servants the prophets. Then in 1 corinthians 15:51 we will be changed in a moment a twinkling is this the same mystery and is it finished and the salvation of the 12 tribes that are scattered has begun and the circumcision apostles Gal. 2:9 epistles are in full force and correct doctrinally, to be followed by having faith and works, and your thoughts on the seventh angel, I see Christ just considering. Hope you understand my ? I may not use the same terminologies as a baptist. Basically is the mystery that is finished in Revelation, Pauls declared mystery he taught. And that mystery end Gods dispensation to the Gentiles. And Israel grafted back in through the teachings of those that were sent to the lost sheep of Israel. An Inquiring Anglican, Glory be unto thee O Christ.

Your terminology is neither Anglican nor Baptist, dear brother: you're just talking scripture, as we all should! The question may seem a bit convoluted, but that's because you're covering so much ground. That's to your credit: you're attempting to rightly divide. Most Christians are too lazy to scratch the surface.

Let's leave Acts 28:28 aside, because it doesn't mention, specifically, any of the mysteries that Paul preached; it merely says that the Gospel will go to the Gentiles. But the Gospel, as defined in 1 Cor. 15:1-4, is not a "mystery" in itself. And the mystery of 1 Cor. 15:51 is not the same as the mystery of Rom. 11:25. They're completely different.

There are at least seven "mysteries" in the New Testament, and none of them duplicate any of the others. They are all separate concepts or teachings.

1. The mystery of the Incarnation: 1 Tim. 3:16. God becoming a human being? Are you kidding? If that's not a "mystery," I've never heard of one!

2. The indwelling Christ: Col. 1:27. That's another mystery. Jesus, the Holy One, inhabiting my filthy old self? But He does.

3. The marriage of Christ and the Church: Eph. 5:23-32.

4. The temporary blindness of Israel: Rom. 11:25-29. This is the one that the Calvinists and Amillennialists don't like. They want to think that God has cast away Israel forever. The Bible says otherwise. But Jew-hatred is very popular in some circles. This gets into your question, or reference, about the re-engrafting of the Jews.

5. Babylon the Great: Rev. 17:4-6. This is the infamous woman of Revelation. Not to be too blunt about it, but she's the Roman Catholic Church. The Catholics claim to be mentioned in the Bible. They're right: they're mentioned in Revelation 17.

6. The Mystery of Iniquity: 2 Thess. 2:3-12. This is the Antichrist, the Man of Sin. I love the terminology! This is the precise opposite of 1 Tim. 3:16: the mystery of godliness, vs. the mystery of iniquity. There you have it!

7. The Rapture: 1 Cor. 15:51-53.

But all of these mysteries, as I say, refer to separate things. To be honest, I don't know the exact nature of the mystery mentioned in Rev. 10:7, unless it's just a general reference to all of God's dealings with the human race on earth, which are about to end. If one of our other members has some insight on this, I'd be grateful to hear it!

(07-04-2011 10:28 AM)William Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-04-2011 08:22 AM)Anglican dispensationalist Wrote: [ -> ]Greetings in the name of our great God and saviour Jesus Christ I have a ? I was thinking I remember Paul declaring salvation is sent unto the gentiles Acts 28:28 teaching the mystery Romans 11:25 He said behold i show (reveal) unto you the Mystery and then I read in Revelation 10:7 But in the days of the voice (a shout?) of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, (not sounded yet) Rev.8:6 the mystery of God should be finished, Romans 11:25 fullness of the gentiles has come in as he hath declared to his servants the prophets. Then in 1 corinthians 15:51 we will be changed in a moment a twinkling is this the same mystery and is it finished and the salvation of the 12 tribes that are scattered has begun and the circumcision apostles Gal. 2:9 epistles are in full force and correct doctrinally, to be followed by having faith and works, and your thoughts on the seventh angel, I see Christ just considering. Hope you understand my ? I may not use the same terminologies as a baptist. Basically is the mystery that is finished in Revelation, Pauls declared mystery he taught. And that mystery end Gods dispensation to the Gentiles. And Israel grafted back in through the teachings of those that were sent to the lost sheep of Israel. An Inquiring Anglican, Glory be unto thee O Christ.

Your terminology is neither Anglican nor Baptist, dear brother: you're just talking scripture, as we all should! The question may seem a bit convoluted, but that's because you're covering so much ground. That's to your credit: you're attempting to rightly divide. Most Christians are too lazy to scratch the surface.

Let's leave Acts 28:28 aside, because it doesn't mention, specifically, any of the mysteries that Paul preached; it merely says that the Gospel will go to the Gentiles. But the Gospel, as defined in 1 Cor. 15:1-4, is not a "mystery" in itself. And the mystery of 1 Cor. 15:51 is not the same as the mystery of Rom. 11:25. They're completely different.

There are at least seven "mysteries" in the New Testament, and none of them duplicate any of the others. They are all separate concepts or teachings.

1. The mystery of the Incarnation: 1 Tim. 3:16. God becoming a human being? Are you kidding? If that's not a "mystery," I've never heard of one!

2. The indwelling Christ: Col. 1:27. That's another mystery. Jesus, the Holy One, inhabiting my filthy old self? But He does.

3. The marriage of Christ and the Church: Eph. 5:23-32.

4. The temporary blindness of Israel: Rom. 11:25-29. This is the one that the Calvinists and Amillennialists don't like. They want to think that God has cast away Israel forever. The Bible says otherwise. But Jew-hatred is very popular in some circles. This gets into your question, or reference, about the re-engrafting of the Jews.

5. Babylon the Great: Rev. 17:4-6. This is the infamous woman of Revelation. Not to be too blunt about it, but she's the Roman Catholic Church. The Catholics claim to be mentioned in the Bible. They're right: they're mentioned in Revelation 17.

6. The Mystery of Iniquity: 2 Thess. 2:3-12. This is the Antichrist, the Man of Sin. I love the terminology! This is the precise opposite of 1 Tim. 3:16: the mystery of godliness, vs. the mystery of iniquity. There you have it!

7. The Rapture: 1 Cor. 15:51-53.

But all of these mysteries, as I say refer to separate things. To be honest, I don't know the exact nature of the mystery mentioned in Rev. 10:7, unless it's just a general reference to all of God's dealings with the human race on earth, which are about to end. If one of our other members has some insight on this, I'd be grateful to hear it!

Though I do not believe that the seven trumpets of rev.8-10 are the same as the trump of God in first thess. 4 or first cor. 15, I do think there is something to be said about the mystery in rev. 10:7 and Rom. 11:25- 29. If the fullness of the gentiles is the same thing as the times of the gentiles than chronologically the mystery of rom.11 could run to just about the end of the tribulation. Jer. 30:7-11 are tribulation verses, and this is when God makes a full end of all nations. That is the second adv. when all the nations are going to be gathered to destroy Israel and and God wipes them all out. This is when God speaks comfortably to his bride-hos.2-, feeds them with manna-rev. 12, and when they look upon him whom they have pierced- zech.12.- This is when the vail is taken away from their eyes and heart- 2 cor. 3.- This sounds like the end of the blindness in part, does it not? verse 6 in rev. 10 and rev. 11:15 show that after the seventh angel sounds is the end of the trib. The second advent takes place and the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our Lord, and his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever-millenium. There are four second adv. accounts given in revelation, and they are not chronological.
The point is, I think there could be some connection of these two mysteries. I do not think that the times of the gentiles ended in 1917 or 1948. If so, than why the strange correlation between the destruction of the gentile nations and the revelation of the messiah to Israel?

(07-04-2011 04:26 PM)nathan1611 Wrote: [ -> ]Though I do not believe that the seven trumpets of rev.8-10 are the same as the trump of God in first thess. 4 or first cor. 15, I do think there is something to be said about the mystery in rev. 10:7 and Rom. 11:25- 29. If the fullness of the gentiles is the same thing as the times of the gentiles than chronologically the mystery of rom.11 could run to just about the end of the tribulation. Jer. 30:7-11 are tribulation verses, and this is when God makes a full end of all nations. That is the second adv. when all the nations are going to be gathered to destroy Israel and and God wipes them all out. This is when God speaks comfortably to his bride-hos.2-, feeds them with manna-rev. 12, and when they look upon him whom they have pierced- zech.12.- This is when the vail is taken away from their eyes and heart- 2 cor. 3.- This sounds like the end of the blindness in part, does it not? verse 6 in rev. 10 and rev. 11:15 show that after the seventh angel sounds is the end of the trib. The second advent takes place and the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our Lord, and his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever-millenium. There are four second adv. accounts given in revelation, and they are not chronological.
The point is, I think there could be some connection of these two mysteries. I do not think that the times of the gentiles ended in 1917 or 1948. If so, than why the strange correlation between the destruction of the gentile nations and the revelation of the messiah to Israel?

All very good points, brother! Thank you for your input!

Good verses too consider years ago I had regular interactions with a Bible baptist who is now 76 years old in a mission work in the philippines. Basically he became what is called a mid trib believer he held to the belief that the trib is as long as the scripture states 42 months. but at the time he would state his particulr thought, It would dwell in my mind on these verses, these ?s He had raised the thought, it states, in 1 Thess. 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16For the Lord himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18Wherefore comfort one another with these words. He maintained Christ was the seventh angel he had the unblown trump with him there was a shout. 1 Cor. 15:52 at the last trump he said (meant before) according to him, we are caught up Grace age saints mystery of God was finished. I reasoned from that most likely the mystery was Christ in you the hope of glory We look for a blessed hope. I always got the impression from Peter James Johns writings . That the christian strives to keep Christ in him to remain in him 1 john 2:24 . I Love hearing your comments.